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Old 11-24-2012, 03:20 PM   #76
doc_ricketts
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Here is a good web site that I have enjoyed drooling over all the many trails in Utah that I haven't had a chance to ride on. I don't want anybody to mess with any of it, either state or federal or sierra clubbies.
http://www.utah.com/offroad/

Here is a video of Gov. Herbert talking to an ATV group in which he sounds very reasonable. If so, then he might be workable in a solution rather than taking on a big battle with the federal government:
http://youtu.be/S7qpSYUkZFc
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doc_ricketts screwed with this post 11-24-2012 at 03:45 PM
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:25 PM   #77
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Signed. Done.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:26 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
I sent him an email and a message on Facebook. I suspect he already knows about the actions from the Utah governor and the environmental groups. He is being rumored for the Sec. State replacement, so I imagine he is very busy, but knowing how he loves offroad riding and the beautiful areas of Utah, I suspect he will be involved somehow. This issue involves the fine details of state-federal/environment-energy complexities. Similar issues have centered around Yellowstone and other areas that are highly multiuse. I worked on a problem north of Yellowstone where a wacko church group was drilling a large number of geothermal wells. And similar problems existed along the western margin of Yellowstone with energy development.
Let us know what you hear, and thanks for reaching out to Huntsman
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:35 PM   #79
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Signed and sent.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:32 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Pariahtize View Post
Yeah, that makes sense. . . . I suppose that's why they support expeditions into pristine environments. Those mountaineers and rock climbers, and "trekkers" (et al) never leave piles of trash (and shit) behind. . . never place bolts into rocks. . . never create new trails. . . never use vehicles and burn fossil fuels. . . never promote/propose that their customers follow suit and "explore". . . never support exhibitionistic people who unlawfully disregard laws put in place to protect the environment (ex: no climbing on the arches within Arches NP). . . never make profits from "destructive recreation". . . never get involved with bias politics (oops!). . . .

Hey, at least they aren't hypocrites!
Right on! See Mount Everest base camp for proof of our point! Or any remote base camp for that matter. Shit everywhere...literally!!!
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:06 AM   #81
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I think white wash is included!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_ricketts View Post
Here is an accurate description of what they are trying to do overall:
http://www.sierraclub.org/habitat/do...anyonlands.pdf
Ok....I asked the guys on MotoUtah if they think I'm right, but I believe at least part of White Wash is included in the proposed Monument. At least it appears that way on the sierra club map. If you follow the Green River south from Green River, Dead Cow is just north of Trin-Alcove (get your maps...its a hairpin bend in the river). The border of the proposed monument is NORTH of Dead Cow!!!!

If I'm right, this whole thing just jumped to another whole level in my estimation. Even if I'm wrong, the whole thing would set a precedent that we simply can not allow. Since when do retailers establish the classification of public land? Problem is, if they get everyone non-moto behind them, we'll lose, BUT WE MUST TRY!
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:49 AM   #82
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Draft lette to retailers

In case you don't have time to draft your own, consider using the following. Be sure to customize the part about what recreation you take part in and most importantly, the part about their products. The more specific you can get the better....and obviously if its to a cafe, revise accordingly.
-------------------------------
Hi

I am writing because I see that your company’s name was on a letter to President Obama concerning creation of a new national monument surrounding Canyonlands National Park.

My family and friends enjoy many forms of recreation in the great outdoors including mountain biking, dirt biking, road cycling, hiking, canyoneering, rock and ice climbing, mountain climbing, kayaking and 4wheeling and use many of your products in some of these pursuits. We recognize that certain areas are worthy of a special level of protection, but we feel that there is already an adequate amount of land so protected. We feel that any further restrictions on access and responsible recreation are unneeded and will actually have a detrimental effect in the long run. That is, as less and less land is available for recreation, it will result in overcrowding on the remaining lands which will lead to unnecessary user conflicts and overuse of those lands.

In addition, there are already resource management plans in place or underway for most (if not all) federal land and these plans take into account the particular needs of each specific area and provide for responsible and managed multiple use, taking into account many factors including the history of the area.

Please let me know your position on this so that I will know whether we will wish to purchase any of your products in the future.

Thank you.
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dmac1 screwed with this post 11-25-2012 at 08:36 AM Reason: I added a couple other activities plus added the red highlight
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:00 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
In case you don't have time to draft your own, consider using the following. Be sure to customize the part about what recreation you take part in and most importantly, the part about their products. The more specific you can get the better....and obviously if its to a cafe, revise accordingly.
-------------------------------
Hi

I am writing because I see that your company’s name was on a letter to President Obama concerning creation of a new national monument surrounding Canyonlands National Park.

My family and friends enjoy many forms of recreation in the great outdoors including mountain biking, dirt biking, hiking, canyoneering, rock and ice climbing, mountain climbing and 4wheeling and use many of your products in some of these pursuits. We recognize that certain areas are worthy of a special level of protection, but we feel that there is already an adequate amount of land so protected. We feel that any further restrictions on access and responsible recreation are unneeded and will actually have a detrimental effect in the long run. That is, as less and less land is available for recreation, it will result in overcrowding on the remaining lands which will lead to unnecessary user conflicts and overuse of those lands.

In addition, there are already resource management plans in place or underway for most (if not all) federal land and these plans take into account the particular needs of each specific area and provide for responsible and managed multiple use, taking into account many factors including the history of the area.

Please let me know your position on this so that I will know whether we will wish to purchase any of your products in the future.

Thank you.



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Old 11-25-2012, 08:18 AM   #84
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So, we still are not getting nearly enough interest to make a dent in this. Dmac1 has offered to write the letter to go along with the petition and we will post it as soon as it is done so people know what they are signing.


This was posted in a link earlier, but here is the map of the proposed National Monument boundaries. The area that will be lost is mind numbing. Again I am saying this will be the single largest blow to riding in the western US, EVER. Hopefully looking at the map you can see that the majority of popular riding in Utah will be lost.
Where have you ridden in the boundary that will be lost. Do you mountain bike, hike, or camp anywhere in the boundary??



Here are excerpts from the Sierra Clubs about their justification for the National Monument.....


This is what they are urging their members to do about it, not much different than us.............



Please send a letter to Obama here
and sign the petition to boycott all the supporting businesses here


Thanks for everyone's support so far. If you already signed please pass it along to friends, post on face book, twiter etc. I can guarantee you the sierra club members are doing just that.

Ben
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:58 AM   #85
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Just what we need. More of our lands locked up so only a few can enjoy them. We (USA) can't even manage the National Parks and Monument that we have designated in the past. And most the people that have put pressure on our current administration to create more wilderness will never set foot on these lands.

Now is the time to be heard. Write your elected officials, Land Management agencies, and the companies that supply the $ $ to these idiots.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:16 AM   #86
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I happen to have quite a few vids and pictures of this area, I'm thinking of trying to do a short documentary on this proposed change in designation.

Open to ideas???

Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
So, we still are not getting nearly enough interest to make a dent in this. Dmac1 has offered to write the letter to go along with the petition and we will post it as soon as it is done so people know what they are signing.


This was posted in a link earlier, but here is the map of the proposed National Monument boundaries. The area that will be lost is mind numbing. Again I am saying this will be the single largest blow to riding in the western US, EVER. Hopefully looking at the map you can see that the majority of popular riding in Utah will be lost.
Where have you ridden in the boundary that will be lost. Do you mountain bike, hike, or camp anywhere in the boundary??



Here are excerpts from the Sierra Clubs about their justification for the National Monument.....


This is what they are urging their members to do about it, not much different than us.............



Please send a letter to Obama here
and sign the petition to boycott all the supporting businesses here


Thanks for everyone's support so far. If you already signed please pass it along to friends, post on face book, twiter etc. I can guarantee you the sierra club members are doing just that.

Ben
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I happen to have quite a few vids and pictures of this area, I'm thinking of trying to do a short documentary on this proposed change in designation.

Open to ideas???
Ridefreak,
Thanks for taking the lead on doing some youtube videos.

I think it would be good to first talk about what a National Monument really is. Maybe try and highlight that there are no Mtn Bikes, no access to hiking, camping, OHVs etc and show the "typical" tourists that visit national parks and monuments who are lucky to stray from the paved road. Try and emphasis that this "tourist" is now the user and all the current groups will be run off. Then show the scope of this proposal and list a highlight real of all the great trials that would be lost, for all types of users.

I think it is important to also emphasis in the video this is not just a threat to OHV's but anyone that likes open access. they may not realize it but this includes bikes, hikers, campers, rock climbers, etc. None of these people could do any of their activities if there was not OHV access. Tell me how many rock climbers will do a 12 hour hike in the heat of the desert to climb a rock face for 2 hours, when they can currently just drive their Toyota Tacoma 2 hours down a dirt road up to the climb?
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:54 AM   #88
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Strength in numbers

I will say this again, because I do not possess the computer savy yet, that we need to get the obama and business list link out to all of the regional forums in adv rider. I was scouting the other forums looking for issues similar to ours, and realized that there are a lot of people on the other forums that need to know about this. Every signature counts! and it is so easy to complete. I would think that this would be an excellent way to show strength in numbers because that is what is needed here and if this happens some where else, that we would be called upon to respond. I would think that the 4wd off road groups would be pissing razor blades about this also. I will see if my jeep club is aware of this when I get back in town and see if a collective effort is being mounted on their part.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Fred Garvin View Post
I will say this again, because I do not possess the computer savy yet, that we need to get the obama and business list link out to all of the regional forums in adv rider. I was scouting the other forums looking for issues similar to ours, and realized that there are a lot of people on the other forums that need to know about this. Every signature counts! and it is so easy to complete. I would think that this would be an excellent way to show strength in numbers because that is what is needed here and if this happens some where else, that we would be called upon to respond. I would think that the 4wd off road groups would be pissing razor blades about this also. I will see if my jeep club is aware of this when I get back in town and see if a collective effort is being mounted on their part.
Maybe regarding this a moderator can help or offer advice. Can we do a post in the other regional forums regarding this issue, or is that considered spam??
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:02 PM   #90
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I got the standard Patagucci response:

Dear Dave,
Thank you very much for getting in touch about something you and we care about. We hope you'll reconsider your decision to stop buying from us, but our position on national monuments and wilderness remains what it has been for forty years.

We think that some lands need to be set aside and the human impact on them should be light in order to give the land a rest, and the animals and plants on it a place to live.

Sincerely,
Patagonia
Customer Service |P: 800.638.6464 800.638.6464 |www.patagonia.com
Patagonia Customer Service Reps are available for inquiries weekdays from 6am to 6pm, and weekends from 8am to 4pm (PT).

Heres what I asked em back:

Thanks for the response, but your company seems to be a bit hypocritical in
its position. What about the climbers you support who climb illegally (a
certain arch in Arches National Park comes to mind). Or how about the piles
of waste (human and otherwise) that climbers continually leave at various
basecamps and mid-climb? And how do you reconcile your response when your
company supports expeditions into pristine environments that are left
trampled and soiled? And what about bolts placed on virgin rock faces?
Oh...and do they not use vehicles to get there? And does your firm not
profit off of all the above? Or is all of the above somehow different?

So...what I want to know is how you are going to give the land a rest from
YOUR firm's impact? When you tell me that, I'll reconsider buying your
products.

Thanks.
Dave
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