This is sickening...

[eatpasta]

Originally Posted by Chillum

Things happen, it's not nice or whatever, but oh well. Get over it.

Im sure if the same crew of people that stole that art took those same saws to your house, your tune would probably be slightly different

[Entheogen]

I would get over it....or I would forever hold hatred and violence in my heart. I'm not trivializing anything, what happened was a loss for everyone invloved...even the thieves. Gaining a quick buck at the exepnse of our history. I will leave off with an old indian prayer. We may have our differences, but I will always stop to help any one of you.

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin....All my relations. I honor you in this circle of life with me today. I am grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you in this prayer....

To the Creator, for the ultimate gift of life, I thank you.

To the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience, I thank you.

To the plant nation that sustains my organs and body and gives me healing herbs for sickness, I thank you.

To the animal nation that feeds me from your own flesh and offers your loyal companionship in this walk of life, I thank you.

To the human nation that shares my path as a soul upon the sacred wheel of Earthly life, I thank you.

To the Spirit nation that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of light through the Ages, I thank you.

To the Four Winds of Change and Growth, I thank you.

You are all my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live. We are in the circle of life together, co-existing, co-dependent, co-creating our destiny. One, not more important than the other. One nation evolving from the other and yet each dependent upon the one above and the one below. All of us a part of the Great Mystery.

Thank you for this Life.

[traveltoad]

I am not sure how or why you have made the leap from anger at a specific act to "forever hold hatred and violence in my heart" and why that has anything to do with reporting a crime to the police or not.

[Pucker]

Originally Posted by Chillum

I will always stop to help any one of you.

...unless that help involves contacting any LEO's, right? Just wanted to be clear.

And thanks for siting a Sioux prayer for the occasion. I'm sure the Paiutes appreciate it, 'cuz all "Indians" are the same.

[High Country Herb]

What I saw in that prayer was that not only are all Indians the same, but we are all the same. I didn't see anything I don't agree with, actually, including the need for forgiveness (though I often fail at that, which is why I need Jesus to demonstrate it for me).

It is hard for me to get my head around the deep distrust for LEO's, from someone who seems to hold good will. I'm sure that is because my known relatives have not had so much taken from them by the "authorities". Hopefully, for the sake of the people who were wronged, there can be forgiveness in that as well. Hopefully, for the sake of everyone, the "authorities" with ill will become more and more rare. I think they are pretty much non-existent in my area, thankfully.

I'm still not going to let those bastards cut petroglyphs if I can help it...

[Entheogen]

Distrust of LEO is based upon my life experience in America. I've lived no where else so have only been exposed to the police HERE. I've copied a bit from an article that touches upon this subject, but ONLY TOUCHES. There are far more areas that need to be addressed in order to put LEO on the respect level they DESERVE.

"In its letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, a group of prominent law-enforcement officials argued: "August Vollmer, father of professional policing and primary author of the Wickersham Commission report that served to bring an end to the prohibition of alcohol, opposed the enforcement of drug laws, saying that they 'engender disrespect both for law and for the agents of law enforcement.' ... After 40 years of the drug war, people no longer look upon law enforcement as heroes but as people to be feared. This is particularly true in poor neighborhoods and in those of people of color, and it impacts our ability to fight real crime."

This statement is almost universally true in America. Ask any ONE person if a police car pulls up behind you or next to you what their first emotion is. 99.99% of the time it is FEAR. These are good people who work and fulfill their role in society, not gang bangers or crooks. This is a PROBLEM folks. Fear does not engender respect, it creates the opposite. Special rights for police only make matters worse. As I said...this is only the surface and there are far too many areas to discuss, but that one I just stated is a big one. FEAR. As public servants, they garner respect from us by being willing "to lay their lives down in service for the community." That was the old ways, now they shoot your ass if you "reach for the waistband". 100's if not thousands of murders, yes they are murder, happen because police officers are NOT willing to lay their lives down in service of their community. That is another huge reason why people do not respect them.

Read what I wrote again...I'll help any one of you, but I did not go into detail about what constitutes that help. If I'm helping you should be grateful, not try and dictate my response. I won't call LEO folks...too many people have died from that call. You go ahead and do what you want, and leave me the same freedom.

[traveltoad]

Nothing in your post says anything about your "life experience in America" and how any of these "experiences" have led you to distrust LEO... unless you were around during prohibition?

Regardless... I do now know where you are coming from...

[notmybikemodelname]

I'll put this in simple terms that are rules I live by.

Cops smell fear and will act upon that like blood to a Great White. They live to fuck with people and get paid for doing such. They get off on this and most come from recent military training where they are taught to always be on guard and watch their asses before caring about rights of others. They are trained killers and nothing more. If they weren't licensed to protect (kill within the law), they would be killing outside of it and many do. I don't like them, trust them, nor will I ever be friends with one, nor turn my back on one. I've never called LEO for aything in my life, I protect myself, my family and always will.

That being said, in remote areas such as this where things need to be protected, they might be of service simply because they are animals and can live as such in remote outlying areas. Also, they will be much less likely to kill, abuse, or mame their own kind due to their remote service. And because of this, and in this situation, I would not hesitate to call the LEO if I witnessed this, because this is nothing but the perpetration of a crime on an under-represented and under-protected people.

You have to choose your own battles and you have to choose between the worst evils. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[Jeff aka BOLT]

Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname

I'll put this in simple terms that are rules I live by.

Cops smell fear and will act upon that like blood to a Great White.

Flip side... Grew up with a Cop for a Dad. Not a killer. Not even close. Half his friends were Cops... other half were hot rodders and stock car guys. The car guys were drunks.. the Cops alcoholics. The car guys told stories of their shenanigans that sounded bad... Cops did too. Were there Cops that were power hungry and looking for trouble to leash upon people they felt deserved a good kick in the head ? Sure. Did I see car guys take matters into their own hands and throw some beat downs in the pits ? Yep.

Men with Testosterone do stupid shit. People expect more of the Cop than the Citizen... and that is fair. But behind the badge is a still a breathing human with problems like you... who is expected to be perfect... and take a lot of shit before he finally finds someone to give a little back.

I find those that dislike and distrust Cops tend to bleed those feelings like Pheromons... the Cops smell it... and the haters become targets.

Or in much simpler terms... "People that have problems with Cops... are the People that have problems with Cops."

You can't change a Cop who is rolling up to your door... but you might be able to change how you deal with him... and improve the outcome. IMHO

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by Jeff aka BOLT

Flip side... Grew up with a Cop for a Dad. Not a killer. Not even close. Half his friends were Cops... other half were hot rodders and stock car guys. The car guys were drunks.. the Cops alcoholics. The car guys told stories of their shenanigans that sounded bad... Cops did too. Were there Cops that were power hungry and looking for trouble to leash upon people they felt deserved a good kick in the head ? Sure. Did I see car guys take matters into their own hands and throw some beat downs in the pits ? Yep.

Men with Testosterone do stupid shit. People expect more of the Cop than the Citizen... and that is fair. But behind the badge is a still a breathing human with problems like you... who is expected to be perfect... and take a lot of shit before he finally finds someone to give a little back.

I find those that dislike and distrust Cops tend to bleed those feelings like Pheromons... the Cops smell it... and the haters become targets.

Or in much simpler terms... "People that have problems with Cops... are the People that have problems with Cops."

You can't change a Cop who is rolling up to your door... but you might be able to change how you deal with him... and improve the outcome. IMHO

You're also talking about another time and another generation. We now have a different breed let loose on the streets. Beware of your trusting demeanor, it will not serve you well.

I typically just ignore them and hope they'll go away. If not, I still ignore them. And I have no "problems" with cops/the law. My professional bi-yearly FBI check is cleared every year. Just never had a good situation with them.

[High Country Herb]

You guys are just a bunch of anti-social, outlaw bikers ......no wonder I feel so comfortable here.

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by High Country Herb

You guys are just a bunch of anti-social, outlaw bikers ......no wonder I feel so comfortable here.

Correction sir! Anit-social human being.

[airborndad]

I got pulled over Many Many Many Many times and got a whole bunch of tickets and a bunch of warnings and even arrested once (if ya want a good laugh have a beer with me and ask me about it next time we meet around a campfire) and it was ALWAYS because I did something wrong, all except for one time the cops just wanted to check out my cars roll cage


just my experience and I realize this is not true with everyone but I've found that if your not acting like a complete Asshole they won't treat you like one
your attitude good or bad usually has a direct impact on how your encounter will go
even if they start out with being a dick to you your reaction to them can change how things turn out
probably should have been arrested a few more times and gotten some more tickets too


just take into consideration that they get to see a LOT of really Fucked up shit that hopefully you will never get to see

but they still have a job to do and some are good at it and some are not so good at it and some should definately not be in that line of work

[notmybikemodelname]

Originally Posted by airborndad

I got pulled over Many Many Many Many times and got a whole bunch of tickets and a bunch of warnings and even arrested once (if ya want a good laugh have a beer with me and ask me about it next time we meet around a campfire) and it was ALWAYS because I did something wrong, all except for one time the cops just wanted to check out my cars roll cage


just my experience and I realize this is not true with everyone but I've found that if your not acting like a complete Asshole they won't treat you like one
your attitude good or bad usually has a direct impact on how your encounter will go
even if they start out with being a dick to you your reaction to them can change how things turn out
probably should have been arrested a few more times and gotten some more tickets too


just take into consideration that they get to see a LOT of really Fucked up shit that hopefully you will never get to see

but they still have a job to do and some are good at it and some are not so good at it and some should definately not be in that line of work

When I was 16, I was leaving a party sober as it had just got broke up less than an hour after it started. I was about 125 lbs at the time. A 200lb Newport Beach cop grabbed me and threw on the hood of a patrol car with no provocation, i was simply walking toy car. Handcuffed me, then he and his buddy, while I was handcuffed, kicked me in the head and face repeatedly breaking my jaw and causing head lacerations that needed 17 stitches.

When I was 22, I was in San Francisco at a sailboard trade show. I was pulled over leaving a parking garage because I had a break light out. I was arrested for driving while intoxicated, but they never gave me a sobriety test or breathalyzer.
They threw me in the car and then drive around sf for about three hours talking about how they cheat on their wives. They then took me to jail in south San Francisco (20 miles from car) and booked me. Still no sobriety, blood, urine or breathalyzer. At 6:00am they threw me onto the street and didn't tell me where I was, how to get back to my car or anything. And without my shoes.

When I was 25, my sister, brother and I threw a 25th anniversary party for my parents at out condo in Laguna Beach. One of the neighbors called the cops because one of our guest's cars was overhanging their driveway by about 6". When I went outside to move the car forward 6", a cop waited until I parked the car and then made me do a sobriety test. I moved the damn car 6" in front of my parents condo. I was arrested for DUI.

I could go on, but why.....

[High Country Herb]

Originally Posted by notmybikemodelname

When I was 16, I was leaving a party sober as it had just got broke up less than an hour after it started. I was about 125 lbs at the time. A 200lb Newport Beach cop grabbed me and threw on the hood of a patrol car with no provocation, i was simply walking toy car. Handcuffed me, then he and his buddy, while I was handcuffed, kicked me in the head and face repeatedly breaking my jaw and causing head lacerations that needed 17 stitches.

When I was 22, I was in San Francisco at a sailboard trade show. I was pulled over leaving a parking garage because I had a break light out. I was arrested for driving while intoxicated, but they never gave me a sobriety test or breathalyzer.
They threw me in the car and then drive around sf for about three hours talking about how they cheat on their wives. They then took me to jail in south San Francisco (20 miles from car) and booked me. Still no sobriety, blood, urine or breathalyzer. At 6:00am they threw me onto the street and didn't tell me where I was, how to get back to my car or anything. And without my shoes.

When I was 25, my sister, brother and I threw a 25th anniversary party for my parents at out condo in Laguna Beach. One of the neighbors called the cops because one of our guest's cars was overhanging their driveway by about 6". When I went outside to move the car forward 6", a cop waited until I parked the car and then made me do a sobriety test. I moved the damn car 6" in front of my parents condo. I was arrested for DUI.

I could go on, but why.....

Assuming you haven't tracked the Newport pair down, you are more forgiving than I...