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Old 11-25-2012, 04:44 PM   #2236
pfb
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
Thanks, man-- very helpful.

There's one at a dealer in the Denver area that has my attention right now: decent mileage in the color I want with sport seats at a pretty good price. No mention of IMS or RMS upgrades, though.
I'm always happy to take a look at a car in Denver for somebody out of town as well... Not instead of a PPI, but perhaps help in deciding if it is worth putting the money into a PPI.

I am constantly blown away at the variation in cosmetic condition of cars that are described as in great condition. I've seen some terrible cars that were described as excellent, and some pretty sanitary 911's that were definitely nicer than I was expecting.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:13 PM   #2237
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Originally Posted by Nailhead View Post
Don't throw in the towel yet.

Do some reading (Rennlist.org, Renntech.org, Pelican Parts, etc.) and you will find that the shortcomings of the 996 tend to be overblown-- at least that's my takeaway after reading everything I can get my hands on about them and their potential faults.

Yes, they have a reputation for cratering engines due to the failure of a RIDICULOUSLY BADLY-designed bearing on the intermediate shaft, but if this is remedied with an LN IMS upgrade kit (coupled with an avoidance of lugging the engine), it seems from what I've read to solve the problem. Same seemingly with the rear main: if it is changed out for the latest design, it tends to present no further problems.

Also from what I've read, the M96 engines are the least demanding of periodic maintenance of any Porsche engine up to that time. Read up on the maintenance requirements of pre-M96 engines, and you might be surprised how demanding they can be of valve adjustments and the like. Read up also on their faults: 3.0, 2.7-- these are the ones I remember having major endemic potential faults-- though I don't remember exactly what those were.

I guess what I'm trying to say here (and relate from all that I've read), is that there are potential pitfalls to 996 purchase and ownership, but going into said purchase with eyes wide open and the ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY pre-purchase inspection can level the playing field quite a bit. Full service documentation is a huge bonus towards this also. Service plans are another great idea.

As far as the interior goes, I don't remember reading anything on chronic switchgear/electrical failures, and I disagree with the author of that article you quoted: I think the 996 interior looks quite accommodating for both the driver and the passenger. That of the 993 looks to me like a kit car in comparison.

The 993 brings me to my (long overdue) final point: the 996 is from what I can determine far and away the best value in a 911. Its (overblown) bad rep coupled with what I see as a "black sheep" quality stemming from its place as the first water-cooled 911 has kept 996 values way below 993's. This, combined with fewer service requirements and increased interior comfort/functionality have me sold on them over older 911's, and it's only a matter of time until I get one.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. And I'm largely in agreement after more reading and a little reflection.

I test drove my first 996 tonight and it was a different experience than I was expecting. First, it was Tiptronic and while there was nothing wrong with it, I prefer a clutch if I'm going to have a sports car. Having said that the 996 seemed more Grand Tourer than SC - it's definitely a fast car but those sharp edges have been rounded. Not to forget the world has moved on and a modern BMW or Audi can outperform an older 911 and be more comfortable and useful with it.

I'm still in lust with owning a 911 (and not put off by the 996 reputation). The one I drove was pristine, the right price, and local. I do want to try a stick to make sure I'm not missing out on a car that is more fun -surely the point of a 911 is to be a little bit edgy.

I may have to recalibrate my expectations on what the 911 experience is about. I guess I was expecting a pumped-up Miata or something similar and it wasn't like that at all (closer to an M3 or Audi S4). The JCW Cooper S I drove recently was harder edged.

None of this is meant as criticism of the 996 it was a beautiful car and looked absolutely gorgeous. I'll sleep on it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:40 PM   #2238
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993s have hydraulic lifters so don't get valve adjustments. The biggest shortfall may be the SAI on the 96-98 cars. Valve guides are another issue to pay attention to.

I would say all Porsches are going to require more maintenance than "normal" cars. Also, the engine must be pulled for certain things that could be done with the engine in the car on other makes. For instance, on my 993, the power steering pump cannot be reached without the engine being dropped.

I've had 5 911s over the years. All were bought used and all required some work. All series have their issues. As was said, just go in with your eyes wide open.

My current 993:

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Old 11-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #2239
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My current 993:

Stunning ...
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:12 AM   #2240
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More sports car eye candy: 917 vs. 512 semi-fake photography:










Photos by Steffen Jahn.

Story and more pics here.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:15 AM   #2241
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Great advice. I saw a white '98 C2S on the way to work this morning, and I can't get over how much better looking the 993's are than any other 911 variant, save the early small-bumper cars of the late 60's early 70's.





Quote:
Originally Posted by marret View Post
993s have hydraulic lifters so don't get valve adjustments. The biggest shortfall may be the SAI on the 96-98 cars. Valve guides are another issue to pay attention to.

I would say all Porsches are going to require more maintenance than "normal" cars. Also, the engine must be pulled for certain things that could be done with the engine in the car on other makes. For instance, on my 993, the power steering pump cannot be reached without the engine being dropped.

I've had 5 911s over the years. All were bought used and all required some work. All series have their issues. As was said, just go in with your eyes wide open.

My current 993:

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Old 11-27-2012, 08:49 AM   #2242
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Talking A little fun towing comparison!

Thought you guys might find this interesting here.

I have two "tow rigs". My Dodge truck and the CTT.

I recently went to pick up a Eurovan out of state to build a camper project out of.

I debated which vehicle to take to tow it home and decided on the CTT. It was as long 3,600 mile tow. (The eurovan was a hell of a deal;)) Then when I got home I wanted to put the CTT back in the garage, so I hooked the trailer up to the Dodge to secure it, etc. I have now towed the Eurovan around for about 3 days with the Dodge to do various things.


Here are the basic specs.

Trailer + Eurovan = about 7,500 lbs. Add my 210 lbs of driver and its right about the max tow weight for the CTT.

Trailer has trailer brakes and both the CTT and the Dodge have the exact same trailer brake controller in them. (Makes adjustment easier to remember)


2004 CTT chipped (totally drawing a blank on which one right now), APR R1 bpvs, CTTS control arms, everything else stock. Factory tow package. (Est. for the chip company should put it about 530hp/550tq or something like that at the crank)

1998 Dodge 2500 quad cab short box 4x4, V10 (stock 300hp/450tq) but with a dual fuel propane set up, headers, dual exhaust all the way back, MSD plug wires, etc) NV4500 5 speed, Dana 80 LSD rear, Dana 60 front.

So which tows better?


The CTT pulls the load MUCH MUCH better. I could hold 80mph long mountain passes with just a toe on the pedal. The dodge will slow to about 60 "all in" on a steep climb.

The CTT stops FAR better!! Obviously the trailer brakes are only controlling part of the load since the Dodge had more of an issue coming to a stop then the CTT with the same load behind it, same trailer brakes and same controller.

The CTT feels much more stable in a corner. The much lower center of gravity and much more advanced suspension obviously controls the weight better.

CTT has air bags to auto level the load, Dodge does not, but you can see that the Dodge was not exactly squatting with it on there

Every once in a while I forgot to shift the CTT down to first to get the load moving and it doesn't complain one bit, it just starts in second like normal and it moves right along. The Dodge really only wanted to get moving in first.

The CTT is MUCH MUCH FASTER when merging or passing!

The CTT also turns the load around in a much tighter space. Which made U-turns a no brainer. You usually have to "take another lap" in the Dodge.

Pulling the mountain passes at 75-80 I got anywhere from 10-13mpg in the CTT. I averaged 17mpg without the Eurovan on the trailer when going to pick it up.

The Dodge gets 10mpg unloaded and anywhere from 4-8 pulling. :eek:

The Dodge does "feel" more natural with a trailer behind it. Even though the CTT kicks its but in the task.

Obviously if my truck were a modified diesel (the V10 was more powerful stock than the diesel of the same year) it would probably get better mileage and hold speed better. But it would still handle and brake the same.






7,500 lbs behind it, cruise control set, it doesn't like my led trader lights.

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Old 11-27-2012, 09:16 AM   #2243
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So which tows better?
I traded my 2010 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison Crew Cab 4X4 on my diesel Cayenne. As good at towing as the Cayenne is, I can't imagine comparing it to my (former) diesel truck. There is no comparison.

Apples to oranges.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #2244
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I traded my 2010 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison Crew Cab 4X4 on my diesel Cayenne. As good at towing as the Cayenne is, I can't imagine comparing it to my (former) diesel truck. There is no comparison.

Apples to oranges.
Have you even towed with the Cayenne yet?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:22 AM   #2245
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Why do you keep towing the EV ?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #2246
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who else had to park their 911 from too many speeding tickets?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:55 AM   #2247
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Why do you keep towing the EV ?
Bought it with a bad timing chaing tensioner. Runs great above 1600rpm but won't idle. Thus the killer price on it. They need the chains and tensioners done at this mileage anyway so a nice $8,000-$12k discount to install the $300 part myself is nice. (I have some free time)

I had to get the title in my name and in Colorado that requires a VIN inspection, so I needed to take the van to the DMV with me.

Then I dropped the black van off the trailer and bought a second wrecked "Weekender" so I could steal the pop top and camper parts out of it. So the next couple of days I was actually towing the wrecked white van and not the original black van. I took all the pop top parts off this one and parted it out for more than I paid for it. When I get the timing chain job finished on the black van I will cut the roof and install all of the pop up parts and do a camper conversion.





The plan is to have something that looks like this when done! Will sleep 5 ( two in the popup, two in the fold out bed, and one kid in the hammock above the front seats) . With the lower bed removed it will fit two motorcycles and you can still sleep above)

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Xtremjeepn screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 11:02 AM
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:19 PM   #2248
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Originally Posted by NCGS View Post
Stunning ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
Great advice. I saw a white '98 C2S on the way to work this morning, and I can't get over how much better looking the 993's are than any other 911 variant, save the early small-bumper cars of the late 60's early 70's.
Thanks for the comments. NCGS, love your pair as well.

I also think the 993s are the best looking 911s going back to the early cars. I've had a 75, 85, 91, 79, and the 95. I also like the wide body cars better than the narrow body cars. I think this is even more true with the newer cars like the 996 and 997.

I believe part of the reason 996s values are down is due to the very different body than the 993. The 997 went back towards the 993 in style. Agree that the 996s are some of the best value 911s out there, especially with the IMS and RMS fixes completed.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:05 PM   #2249
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Thanks for the comments. NCGS, love your pair as well.

I also think the 993s are the best looking 911s going back to the early cars. I've had a 75, 85, 91, 79, and the 95. I also like the wide body cars better than the narrow body cars. I think this is even more true with the newer cars like the 996 and 997.

I believe part of the reason 996s values are down is due to the very different body than the 993. The 997 went back towards the 993 in style. Agree that the 996s are some of the best value 911s out there, especially with the IMS and RMS fixes completed.
The 996 did get a little bland and too close to the Boxter - not distinctively 911 enough. However, I do think the 997 Turbo is an absolute stunner of a car in the looks department.

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Old 11-27-2012, 07:55 PM   #2250
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Have you even towed with the Cayenne yet?
I have.. although I'm not towing anywhere near what you're towing. My trailer is a 6.5 x 12 enclosed Featherlite. I have it set up to haul two m/c's and all my camping gear (plus whatever else I can stuff in it). I sold a 16 x 7 Haulmark that I had set up to haul 5 bikes. I no longer needed the big trailer, or the big truck when my inventory went from 9 to 2 bikes.
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