ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #151
Gordy
Team Listo
 
Gordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: NM
Oddometer: 22,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
See the bellow map....


the majority is BLM and the other part is USFS in the Mante La Sals. For those that have ridden in this area there are very few roads and no trails for OHVs. You can go three days without ever seeing another person and I have never seen any oil wells. Sounds like an area we really need more governemnt control over



There is talk about what trails will be effect by this and looking at the map I can see Behind the Rocks, Kane Creek, Lockhart Basin, Moab Rim (?) Pritchitt (?) Ruin Park, Wooden Shoe Rd just looking for a second. What trails can you see that could be closed?

Let BLM and USFS do thier job and manage the land.
Exactly! Thanks!

They have all the tools that they need now to manage it.
The BLM and USFS need to do their jobs. If they don't have a handle on this, who does??
The Travel Management Plans proposed and in place (which are draconian enough) should address all of their concerns with OHVs. We need to point that out in our letters.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to ask as a taxpayer what this proposal will cost if implemented and how it is to be funded. Then send this to Grover Norquist and the tax nazis. Let them know that the Sierra Club is asking for a non-funded over-reach of the federal government.
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:34 AM   #152
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportSawyer View Post
There are a lot of motorcycle singletrack trails on the FS lands included in SUWA's boundary. See the Manti-La Sal NF, Monticello Ranger District Motor Vehicle Use Map:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5375669.pdf

I've ridden those trails, some of which connect to singletrack on adjacent BLM lands. Losing those trails would be a significant loss of forest singletrack in SE Utah.
Point taken, I guess I was reffering to the Lockhart basin, Runin Park, Wooden shoe area, so i misspoke. But now that I think about it there are also ATV trails off Wooden Shoe correct? All the more reason to support that this is a CLOSURE. Thanks for the input Sportswayer!!!
COXR650L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:57 AM   #153
singletrackslayer
Legalize singletrack
 
singletrackslayer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Morningwood, CO
Oddometer: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Exactly! Thanks!

They have all the tools that they need now to manage it.
The BLM and USFS need to do their jobs. If they don't have a handle on this, who does??
The Travel Management Plans proposed and in place (which are draconian enough) should address all of their concerns with OHVs. We need to point that out in our letters.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to ask as a taxpayer what this proposal will cost if implemented and how it is to be funded. Then send this to Grover Norquist and the tax nazis. Let them know that the Sierra Club is asking for a non-funded over-reach of the federal government.
^^^This^^^ is good stuff Gordy. THIS will help our cause and was already included in all my letters.
__________________
This is Motorado . . .
singletrackslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:38 AM   #154
RideFreak
Green Chile Eater
 
RideFreak's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
Oddometer: 6,198
I was gathering some info for a response to this petition and came across this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyonlands Closure Petition
There is another significant aspect to this problem: too frequently, ORV users knowingly violate existing rules that govern ORV use. In a survey conducted by Utah State University, owners of ORVs reported that they prefer to ride off trail, and in fact, do ride off trail. Specifically, 49% of the ATV riders and 38% of the motorcycle riders report that they prefer to ride off-trail, and 39% of the ATV riders and 50% of the motorcycle riders responded that they did, in fact, ride off-trail on their last trip. These findings are disturbing. Illegal off-trail riding is not limited to “a few bad apples,” but to significant portions of the ORV-riding community. The USU survey also reported that Utah ORV riders drive over 93 million miles annually.6 Considering the annual miles driven along with the percentage of ORV users who prefer to ride off trail and admit to riding off trail, there can be little doubt that illegal, off-trail riding can be ignored, or swept under the rug by the agency’s claim that riders stay on the trails when marked appropriately. The survey results illustrate the massive problems associated with managing ORV use on public lands while simultaneously protecting the sensitive resources. While BLM cannot admittedly control the behavior of every ORV user, it can
take proactive actions to limit opportunities for illegal actions and trespassing. Restricting use in particularly sensitive areas deep in the backcountry is one such reasonable measure.
They obviously got the BS generator redlining. I prefer to ride on a marked trail as do 99.9% of us on here.
__________________
Chris
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
CL Adventure Ride 2013 /CL Revisited 2014 / 700 Miles of Scenic Utah Backcountry / MY VIDEOS / RIDEFREAK TV
RideFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #155
shearboy2004
KIWIINUSA
 
shearboy2004's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Ft Collins ,Colorado
Oddometer: 4,423
Quote:
In a survey conducted by Utah State University
This should be open to public viewing ? I would love to see it and the questions asked and to who !
__________________
88 R100GS
75 Norton Commando Roadster
98 DR450
07 Sherco 510 called Holy Shit .450 Sherco called Bling .
13 Sherco 300i called The Bee's Knees .
shearboy2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #156
SportSawyer
Adventurer
 
SportSawyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Utah
Oddometer: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I was gathering some info for a response to this petition and came across this (from SUWA): ".... In a survey conducted by Utah State University, owners of ORVs reported that they prefer to ride off trail, and in fact, do ride off trail. Specifically, 49% of the ATV riders and 38% of the motorcycle riders report that they prefer to ride off-trail, and 39% of the ATV riders and 50% of the motorcycle riders responded that they did, in fact, ride off-trail on their last trip." ....
SUWA is being dishonest when they use that to support this: "There is another significant aspect to this problem: too frequently, ORV users knowingly violate existing rules that govern ORV use."

If you look carefully at the survey questions, raw data, time-of-year the survey was conducted (for last trip), what the actual management was at the time (2000-2001), how open-ended questions were categorized by the survey takers, etc, etc, etc. it's easy to see that the "off trail" use could have been in places where "off trail" use was NOT a violation of existing rules (dunes, open areas, ...). They can't conclude this use was a violation of law at the time, and they know it.

Get a complete copy of the survey, with all the questions and the answers to open-ended questions, then consider the survey timeline and the management conditions of the various BLM Field Offices and National Forests at that time.

You can download it from:

http://extension.usu.edu/iort/files/...linary_cf5.pdf
SportSawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:11 AM   #157
Pariahtize
Miscategorized
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Northern (FR), CO
Oddometer: 1,318
Shearboy! I'll know about that Debeque trrail ride (if I can make it) by Thr. . . I know, doesn't leave much time for planning. I'd be riding Dec 6th or 7th.
__________________
"Be of good cheer. All may yet be well. There's many a fork, I think, on the road from here to destruction."
E.A.
Pariahtize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:16 AM   #158
COXR650L
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Oddometer: 1,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by shearboy2004 View Post
This should be open to public viewing ? I would love to see it and the questions asked and to who !

Yes it is pure Bull Shit that is a flat our lie by whoever wrote it.


The study they are citing is here....
http://extension.usu.edu/iort/files/...dOHVreport.pdf

The researchers state the figures of "off trail use" dont reflect attitudes of the OHV users due to improperly worded questions, or questions that dont have catagoricial answers. Most of these percentages came from people that were referring to "Open" riding areas such as sand dunes where there are no "trails". See bellow.....


That figure of the study has no statistical importance and even the researchs that did the study say this. Strange how the otherside will hang their hat on it though.

Here is another State of Utah Study on OHV use that many enviro nazi's dont like to cite.........



For anyone interested in disprooving alot of this BS here is a link with tons of studies on the impact of OHVs in Utah that were done or supported by the Utah State University....

http://extension.usu.edu/iort/htm/pr...al_reports/ohv

COXR650L screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 11:25 AM
COXR650L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:17 AM   #159
Pariahtize
Miscategorized
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Northern (FR), CO
Oddometer: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I was gathering some info for a response to this petition and came across this:



They obviously got the BS generator redlining. I prefer to ride on a marked trail as do 99.9% of us on here.

No doubt. it's how they posed the question. . . I'd love to see that survey question too!! Likely, the responses were referring to riding in legal sand areas, washes, slickrock, etc.

This is the typical deceit that you will find coming from these people. They love to twist, adjust and sometimes reconfigure the layout to best suit their agenda.

EDIT: You beat me to it, COXR
__________________
"Be of good cheer. All may yet be well. There's many a fork, I think, on the road from here to destruction."
E.A.
Pariahtize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:25 AM   #160
SportSawyer
Adventurer
 
SportSawyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Northern Utah
Oddometer: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by COXR650L View Post
Yes it is pure Bull Shit that is a flat our lie by whoever wrote it.

The study they are citing is here....
http://extension.usu.edu/iort/files/...dOHVreport.pdf
....
I posted a similar reply with the link, but it hasn't shown up yet. Maybe later.

You are 100% correct.

Anyone who looks carefully at the survey questions, raw data, time-of-year the survey was conducted (for last trip), what the actual management was at the time (2000-2001), how open-ended questions were categorized by the survey takers, etc, etc, etc. can see that the "off trail" use could have been in places where "off trail" use was NOT a violation of existing rules (dunes, open areas, ...). SUWA can't conclude this use was a violation of law at the time, and they know it.

Get a complete copy of the survey, with all the questions and the answers to open-ended questions, then consider the survey timeline and the management conditions of the various BLM Field Offices and National Forests at that time.
SportSawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:10 PM   #161
dmac1 OP
Desert SW Luvr
 
dmac1's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: 6,540
Oddometer: 767
Part of another response from a rep of one of the companies that signed the letter to obama "...there seems to be a big uproar over what they did...."

Keep making noise gang!!!
__________________
RwR | BRC | COHVCO | TPA | Gunny/C.B GOATS
2015 KTM 300 XC, 2006 KTM 450 EXC, 2006 CRF 250X
dmac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #162
Merfman
Trustin' my cape...
 
Merfman's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Oddometer: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I was gathering some info for a response to this petition and came across this:



They obviously got the BS generator redlining. I prefer to ride on a marked trail as do 99.9% of us on here.
And, here's the proof!
http://coloradotpa.org/news/news/exe...t-program.html
Merfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #163
dmac1 OP
Desert SW Luvr
 
dmac1's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: 6,540
Oddometer: 767
Don't mean to preach guys, but I got a response from one of the 30 companies I've contacted that expressed appreciation for the tone of my communication with them. It said most of the communications they've been receiving amount to cyber bullying. I'm not saying anyone on here is doing that, but respectful communications will carry more weight than essentially yelling.

Reminds me of when Dodger stadium was first used for a SX race acouple years ago. A journalist in LA wrote an article that painted fans and the whole thing in an unfavorable light. I wrote him and he responded and said essentially the same thing....lots of nasty, hastily written notes with incorrect grammar and bad language. Unfortunately, it actually largely confirmed what his article said....which was disappointing to me. Spelling too is key. You can use Word to spell check if needed if draft it there first then cut and paste.

Just something to keep in mind as we proceed with this issue.

And just fyi, we're about ready to take the next step (COXR650L and I that is). Stay tuned and keep an eye out for a new thread.
__________________
RwR | BRC | COHVCO | TPA | Gunny/C.B GOATS
2015 KTM 300 XC, 2006 KTM 450 EXC, 2006 CRF 250X
dmac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 07:39 AM   #164
Gordy
Team Listo
 
Gordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: NM
Oddometer: 22,926
Just had an idea that may help.

I bought some Red Wing boots a few weeks ago. and was wondering what to do about their participation in this fiasco.
Writing to corporate may not make much of a difference, but if I write to the local merchant that I have bought boots from for over 20 years explaining why I may not ever be buying from them again, they may have a "WTF is going on?" and contact corporate with more weight than a letter from a disgruntled customer.

I'll let you know how they respond. I'll get the letter out in the next few days.

Just a thought. Maybe contact the local merchants who you have bought some of these goods from over the years and let them know that their corporate's position may determine your future patronage.
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 08:19 AM   #165
TheDudeAbides
Sarcasm free11/11/10
 
TheDudeAbides's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Loveland, Colo
Oddometer: 7,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Just had an idea that may help.

I bought some Red Wing boots a few weeks ago. and was wondering what to do about their participation in this fiasco.
Writing to corporate may not make much of a difference, but if I write to the local merchant that I have bought boots from for over 20 years explaining why I may not ever be buying from them again, they may have a "WTF is going on?" and contact corporate with more weight than a letter from a disgruntled customer.

I'll let you know how they respond. I'll get the letter out in the next few days.

Just a thought. Maybe contact the local merchants who you have bought some of these goods from over the years and let them know that their corporate's position may determine your future patronage.
I've tried that very approach with numerous Patagonia retailers over the years. Most don't care and blindly follow Chouinard and whatever he does. However Summit Canyon Mountaineering in Glenwood Springs actually talked to their Patagonia rep and claimed they wrote a letter to Patagonia as well. I hope they did.
__________________
Best dualsport mirrors I've ever owned

2001 BMW F650 GS Dakar (Stolen!)
2004 DRZE
2004 BMW 1150 GSA
TheDudeAbides is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015