ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 10:20 AM   #1681
Ragin Rabbi
Semper Fidelis
 
Ragin Rabbi's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Western Maryland
Oddometer: 5,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Maybe. But Ferrari knew they had a stinker last season. And they knew they had a stinker even in pre-season testing this season. I'm not sure that Alonso's driving skill deluded them. I think they don't have the genius designer they need.

Three years ago the Ferrari was unreliable. So they put a lot of effort into making a car that doesn't break. They succeeded. But in the meantime (wind tunnel problems or not) they seem to have lost their design direction. All the important innovations are coming from other teams.
Perhaps Alonso is not as good in explaining the deficiencies of the car as he is in driving them?

A driver like he must play merry hobbs on a car's set up from an engineers perspective....
__________________
Each according to their need, each according to their ability.

It takes a village to raise a child.

Go You Spurs!!
Ragin Rabbi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #1682
wxwax
Excited Member
 
wxwax's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 75,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
ending with controversy....
The explanation the Speed crew gave is that the FIA said the yellow light wasn't a caution, but a warning about the track condition. I've never heard of that before, but I have no reason to think the stewards would make something up.

Sure does look odd, though.

While I didn't care for the final result, I agree with everyone that this was one of the best F1 seasons that I can remember. Weather and fortune helped Alonso get into the points lead, and having a slow car at the top was always going to make for an interesting challenge.

Plus, a tip of the ol' lug nut to Pirelli, for doing as requested and making tires that didn't last.
__________________
Sid.

It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this.
-- Bertrand Russell

To make an apple pie from scratch,
you must first invent the universe.
-- Carl Sagan
wxwax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:30 AM   #1683
wxwax
Excited Member
 
wxwax's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 75,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragin Rabbi View Post
Perhaps Alonso is not as good in explaining the deficiencies of the car as he is in driving them?

A driver like he must play merry hobbs on a car's set up from an engineers perspective....
Maybe so. They do have all those data streams coming from the car, though, so surely they aren't that dependent upon the driver's input? I'm not sure if it's a smokescreen or not, but this is the second consecutive season that Ferrari has said the track data didn't match the wind tunnel data. So they were building parts on false assumptions. If they're telling the truth (I think they had to use the old Toyota wind tunnel in Cologne at one point) then the problem lies back at the factory, not behind the wheel.

The big developments in the last few years have come from flexible bodywork, exhaust gas management and engine mapping. And it seems that Ferrari are always chasing, never the leader, in these breakthrough areas.
__________________
Sid.

It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this.
-- Bertrand Russell

To make an apple pie from scratch,
you must first invent the universe.
-- Carl Sagan
wxwax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:18 AM   #1684
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Maybe so. They do have all those data streams coming from the car, though, so surely they aren't that dependent upon the driver's input? I'm not sure if it's a smokescreen or not, but this is the second consecutive season that Ferrari has said the track data didn't match the wind tunnel data. So they were building parts on false assumptions. If they're telling the truth (I think they had to use the old Toyota wind tunnel in Cologne at one point) then the problem lies back at the factory, not behind the wheel.

The big developments in the last few years have come from flexible bodywork, exhaust gas management and engine mapping. And it seems that Ferrari are always chasing, never the leader, in these breakthrough areas.
They're still coming to grips with the whole horse-pushing-the-chariot concept, so bear with 'em.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:22 AM   #1685
g容g
Canadian living in exile
 
g容g's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
They're still coming to grips with the whole horse-pushing-the-chariot concept, so bear with 'em.
pretty cool evolution video of the F 2012









__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g容g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:30 AM   #1686
wxwax
Excited Member
 
wxwax's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 75,796
Remember the guy who said you can't unlearn something? He was referring to Red Bull (and McLaren too, apparently) knowing how to weave flexible carbon fiber body parts and that a FIA ban wasn't going to erase that knowledge, that it would find its way onto the cars.

I wonder whether someday it won't be this or that part that we're talking about, but instead the entire car changing shape for aero advantage?
__________________
Sid.

It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this.
-- Bertrand Russell

To make an apple pie from scratch,
you must first invent the universe.
-- Carl Sagan
wxwax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #1687
PachmanP
Beastly Adventurer
 
PachmanP's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Oddometer: 1,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
The explanation the Speed crew gave is that the FIA said the yellow light wasn't a caution, but a warning about the track condition. I've never heard of that before, but I have no reason to think the stewards would make something up.

Sure does look odd, though.

While I didn't care for the final result, I agree with everyone that this was one of the best F1 seasons that I can remember. Weather and fortune helped Alonso get into the points lead, and having a slow car at the top was always going to make for an interesting challenge.

Plus, a tip of the ol' lug nut to Pirelli, for doing as requested and making tires that didn't last.
I thought they said something about it being a yellow perrelli sign or something.
PachmanP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #1688
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by g容g View Post
pretty cool evolution video of the F 2012









That vid would be Exhibit A in my "What's Wrong With F1" case.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 08:26 PM   #1689
Fajita Dave
Studly Adventurer
 
Fajita Dave's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Barboursville, VA
Oddometer: 717
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
That vid would be Exhibit A in my "What's Wrong With F1" case.
Such small changes really add up in the grand scheme of things for lap time. With that video its easy to see why the team with Adrian Newey has had the dominant car for the past 3 seasons. Even though they were a bit slow at the beginning of 2012 without the old blown diffuser he just made up for it in other ways. A cheating flexi front wing is only a tiny portion of what made the RB8 so fast. Its the small changes made to the entire car that add up to seconds per lap. I'm sure there were hundreds of other changes Ferrari made that the video didn't show. Even with more open rules you'd see the same thing once they start tweaking on their base setup.
__________________
2008 GSXR 600
2001 CR250R


Fajita Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 05:10 AM   #1690
g容g
Canadian living in exile
 
g容g's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
I'm sure there were hundreds of other changes Ferrari made that the video didn't show. Even with more open rules you'd see the same thing once they start tweaking on their base setup.
those were only the changes for Austin & Brazil.
I think there are a few other "evolution" videos over at AMuS
so yeah.... 1000's of changes over the years... the exhaust this year was the big one
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g容g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 07:00 AM   #1691
g容g
Canadian living in exile
 
g容g's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,230
some of the final updates to the Red Bull for 2012....Including the suspicious 3rd damper ride height control
rest of the "evolution" videos are here LINK









__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.

g容g screwed with this post 11-29-2012 at 09:15 AM
g容g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 07:08 AM   #1692
RedRocket
Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs
 
RedRocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 19,426
Don't they ever stop?



http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/11/29/fe...nge-christmas/
RedRocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:16 AM   #1693
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
Such small changes really add up in the grand scheme of things for lap time. With that video its easy to see why the team with Adrian Newey has had the dominant car for the past 3 seasons. Even though they were a bit slow at the beginning of 2012 without the old blown diffuser he just made up for it in other ways. A cheating flexi front wing is only a tiny portion of what made the RB8 so fast. Its the small changes made to the entire car that add up to seconds per lap. I'm sure there were hundreds of other changes Ferrari made that the video didn't show. Even with more open rules you'd see the same thing once they start tweaking on their base setup.
I don't doubt there are valid technical reasons for the changes and incremental performance improvements as a result. I just take a dim view of hundreds of millions of dollars being spent for such vanishingly small returns, given the reality that all of this nibbling around the aerodynamic margins doesn't improve on-track competition (and in fact hampers it), the financial costs require the sport to sell its soul to the moneymen to finance the development, and encourages the application of meddlesome DRS-type gimmicks used to carry on the charade.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 09:57 AM   #1694
wannaklr
Beastly Adventurer
 
wannaklr's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Back In Iowa. Quad Cities to be exactish..
Oddometer: 7,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
__________________
Back in Iowa!
I like my music like I like my women. Loud, angry and with bagpipes!

From Scottie Boy "If you calculated the money spent versus time actually used, vaginas cost more per hour than the space shuttle."
wannaklr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 09:58 AM   #1695
wannaklr
Beastly Adventurer
 
wannaklr's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Back In Iowa. Quad Cities to be exactish..
Oddometer: 7,337
Think Kimi is getting royalties on the "Leave me alone" t-shirts, and sweat shirts, and pens, and mugs, and hats, and .....?
__________________
Back in Iowa!
I like my music like I like my women. Loud, angry and with bagpipes!

From Scottie Boy "If you calculated the money spent versus time actually used, vaginas cost more per hour than the space shuttle."
wannaklr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014