Yooperbikemike's 2013 MotoGP Thread

[Pantah]

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

Complete speculation, but given that he's got less mass to shift over the bike, my guess is that he's using his right hand to stand the bike up quickly. By that I mean that he finishes some turns with an extra helping of throttle; this slides the back slightly pulling the bike upright sooner, at which point the rear regains grip and the extra throttle turns the slide into early acceleration.

That kind of control is what makes him an alien.

Talk about complete speculation!

[Lurky-Loo]

Originally Posted by Pantah

Talk about complete speculation!

If you're going to lie, lie big.

I don't have video clips as examples, but it seems to me that on many of Pedrosa's exits there are times when there's an abrupt transition from being leaned over to being upright. Since Newton's Third Law would preclude this happening by stomping on the outside peg (because that would cause Pedrosa to hang off further, which he doesn't do), I'm going to stick to my throttle theory.

For now.

[BeeCeeGS]

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

Complete speculation, but given that he's got less mass to shift over the bike, my guess is that he's using his right hand to stand the bike up quickly. By that I mean that he finishes some turns with an extra helping of throttle; this slides the back slightly pulling the bike upright sooner, at which point the rear regains grip and the extra throttle turns the slide into early acceleration.

That kind of control is what makes him an alien.

That's how it looks on TV, anyways. It's almost a "mini(me)highside".

[wiseblood]

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

If you're going to lie, lie big.

I don't have video clips as examples, but it seems to me that on many of Pedrosa's exits there are times when there's an abrupt transition from being leaned over to being upright. Since Newton's Third Law would preclude this happening by stomping on the outside peg (because that would cause Pedrosa to hang off further, which he doesn't do), I'm going to stick to my throttle theory.

For now.

There's also this new thing they're doing in MotoGP called "counter steering."

[Lurky-Loo]

Originally Posted by wiseblood

There's also this new thing they're doing in MotoGP called "counter steering."

On exits?

I see Pedrosa with his wheel crossed up after a turn, but that's because once he's upright he's wheelieing and is trying to keep it balanced. See esp. the last turn of Misano this year (during practice, not the race. Thanks Hector!).

Edit: vid of Pedrosa wheelie

[wiseblood]

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

On exits?

Sure, why not? Try it next time you go out riding.

[HarveyMushman]

Originally Posted by BeeCeeGS

That's how it looks on TV, anyways. It's almost a "mini(me)highside".

Garry McCoy (and others) used to chop the throttle to intentionally highside half-way through a chicane, to get the bike to change direction faster.

These guys operate at a level far beyond the experience of a street rider, or Keith Code graduate, or even club racer.

[Pantah]

Yeah I noticed that during his drives he's often in a 3 inch power wheely with the steering crossed up. I wonder why he does that? It seems like he would upset the bike when he sets it down, but I've never seen so much as a wiggle.

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

On exits?

I see Pedrosa with his wheel crossed up after a turn, but that's because once he's upright he's wheelieing and is trying to keep it balanced. See esp. the last turn of Misano this year (during practice, not the race. Thanks Hector!).

Edit: vid of Pedrosa wheelie

[Lurky-Loo]

Originally Posted by wiseblood

Sure, why not?

Because they're already at the edge of traction when they're leaned over and accelerating out of a turn. Countersteering would add unwanted and abrupt additional load on the front. Recent example: when Pedrosa crashed at Phillip Island on the hairpin, he went in too deep and tried to pull it back around (countersteering or not), put too much load on the front and lowsided.

What we do at 40mph to avoid an unseen obstacle in a canyon corner is a whole different deal than what they're doing at 10/10ths on a closed circuit.

[Crisis management]

I'm with Wiseblood on this, small countersteering movements are the only way to get a controlled change in direction, the wheelie occurs after the more upright transition (or at the same time) but after the steering input as the power is applied. I don't see another way of changing the stance or direction of the bike precisely and quickly, we all do this on every corner.
Don't forget we are talking about a degree or two of steering input, not the shit load required to shove a Goldwing onto it's side, I wouldn't expect it to be visible unless a real slow motion recording can be studied.




I'm off to demonstrate my expertise to other road users on the R80........ stand by for tank slappers!

[Lurky-Loo]

This is why countersteering is a time-tested and reliable thread-hijack. Someone says "try it", making it sound like it's something you have to consciously and deliberately do, and then the definition changes to mean it's simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced, the latter definition I agree with.

[mdubya]

Originally Posted by HarveyMushman

Garry McCoy (and others) used to chop the throttle to intentionally highside half-way through a chicane, to get the bike to change direction faster.

These guys operate at a level far beyond the experience of a street rider, or Keith Code graduate, or even club racer.

You got that right. The fact that we are debating the benefits and drawbacks of hanging off and whether or not counter steering works speaks volumes.

[wiseblood]

Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo

This is why countersteering is a time-tested and reliable thread-hijack. Someone says "try it", making it sound like it's something you have to consciously and deliberately do, and then the definition changes to mean it's simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced, the latter definition I agree with.

No, it's not something you "consciously and deliberately do" most of the time. Certainly not at legal road speeds. However, if you do it "consciously and deliberately" you will see that it does exactly what you would expect it to do, and promptly.

At very high track speed (and with clip-ons, as opposed to bars) it does take a considerable effort to turn a bike. Not something you wouldn't notice.

Is it "simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced" ? No. It's actually the opposite. You countersteer to UN-balance a motorcycle.

Geeze... are we really debating the reality of COUNTERSTEERING in the MotoGP thread? Harley thread opens tomorrow. Have fun.

[wiseblood]

Originally Posted by Pantah

Yeah I noticed that during his drives he's often in a 3 inch power wheely with the steering crossed up. I wonder why he does that? It seems like he would upset the bike when he sets it down, but I've never seen so much as a wiggle.

Oh, it DOES wiggle. Plenty of videos -- high motion videos, too -- of the tires deforming and the bars snapping forward when the bike lands.

[Lurky-Loo]

http://www.roadrunner.travel/magazin...r-2002/page/97

... while [Schwantz] did use counter steering to initiate the corner, from that point on he used as little upper body input as he could. Instead, he relied on weighting the inside footpeg and using his outside thigh to pull the fuel tank (located above the center of mass) to the inside of the turn and finish the steering input. As a result his arms could stay more relaxed on the bars and the bike more stable.

So, no, a successful GP rider is not countersteering deliberately after turn-in.