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Old 11-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #361
wiseblood
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Originally Posted by Lurky-Loo View Post
http://www.roadrunner.travel/magazin...r-2002/page/97

So, no, a successful GP rider is not countersteering deliberately after turn-in.

Well, at least Schwantz isn't. (Or, thinks he isn't. )

Try "weighing the outside peg" when exiting a turn. Now, try to do that without exerting a few extra fractions of a pound of force on the outside bar (or pulling on the inside bar).

The question is, how does Dani stand the bike up to quickly. One proposal is "I don't know." Another is "counter-steering."
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #362
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(Or, thinks he isn't. )
That's classic.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:09 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
No, it's not something you "consciously and deliberately do" most of the time. Certainly not at legal road speeds. However, if you do it "consciously and deliberately" you will see that it does exactly what you would expect it to do, and promptly.
I think counter steering is very deliberate in all forms of high performance riding and on all surfaces. Physical even. If you enter a turn too hot, there is only one thing to do if you don't want to run off, and that is push harder on that inside bar. Most of the time you make it with ease. Sometimes you don't. Even setting up for a turn can be quite forceful since most are going point to point rather than sweeping all over the width of the course.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:16 PM   #364
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I think counter steering is very deliberate in all forms of high performance riding and on all surfaces. Physical even. If you enter a turn too hot, there is only one thing to do if you don't want to run off, and that is push harder on that inside bar. Most of the time you make it with ease. Sometimes you don't. Even setting up for a turn can be quite forceful since most are going point to point rather than sweeping all over the width of the course.

I agree. I'm a fan of Lee Parks' suggestion to "pre-load" the opposite bars while setting up for a turn. In that case, turn is initiated by relaxing rather than by exerting force.

I was going to try and find a video to explain what I'm talking about, but I got stuck when I found this instead:



I find this video to be highly instructional, even with the audio turned off.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:30 PM   #365
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:21 PM   #366
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #367
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:17 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
No, it's not something you "consciously and deliberately do" most of the time. Certainly not at legal road speeds. However, if you do it "consciously and deliberately" you will see that it does exactly what you would expect it to do, and promptly.

At very high track speed (and with clip-ons, as opposed to bars) it does take a considerable effort to turn a bike. Not something you wouldn't notice.

Is it "simply what you do to keep a two-wheeled vehicle balanced" ? No. It's actually the opposite. You countersteer to UN-balance a motorcycle.

Geeze... are we really debating the reality of COUNTERSTEERING in the MotoGP thread? Harley thread opens tomorrow. Have fun.

I'm no alien, but if I'm steering with the bars mid-corner at the track, I'm changing my line to set up a pass, or something went pear shaped.

Seriously, you counter steer...hard... to get the bike down for the corner, I guess you could call it setting the arc, once the bike is turning all adjustments are made with the throttle and foot pegs. In most corners you really shouldn't need your left hand unless you have an up shift.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:39 PM   #369
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, once the bike is turning all adjustments are made with the throttle and foot pegs.
BS. Any attempt to put weight on a peg results in input into the bars.

At one of the Ducati events, a punter asked Troy Bayliss does he weight the inside peg or the outside peg in a corner. Bayliss scoffed and said he didn't think about any of that non-sense. If you are concentrating on your foot pegs in a corner you are doing it wrong. You need to be concentrating about 1/8 mile, or further, up the track.

You do what you need to do to get your body in the best position to steer with the bars, whether you know it or not.

Ever ridden on the track with someone missing a leg, or paralyzed from the waist down? Some of those guys hustle around the track pretty fast with nothing to steer with but the handle bars.

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Old 11-29-2012, 09:41 PM   #370
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These guys are busy getting on with it.

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Times:
MotoGP: 1.Hayden (US-Ducati) 1'40 "090 (61) 2. Iannone (Ita-Ducati) 1'40 "989 (72) 3. Pirro (ITA-Ducati) 1'41 "265 (66) 4. Aoyama (Gia-BQR) 1'41 "975 (57) 5. Barbera (Spa-BQR) 1'42 "507.

SBK: 1.Melandri (Ita-BMW) 1'40 "816 (50); 2.Checa (Spa-Ducati) 1'41" 840 (58) 3. Davies (GB-BMW) 1'42 "716 (70) 4. Badovini (Ita-Ducati) 1'44 "529 (64).

STK: 1. Neukirchner (Ger-Ducati) 1'44 "426 (56) 2. Canepa (Ita-Ducati) 1'45 "256 (28) 3. La Marra (Ita-Ducati) 1'45 "526 (57).
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:09 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
BS. Any attempt to put weight on a peg results in input into the bars.

At one of the Ducati events, a punter asked Troy Bayliss does he weight the inside peg or the outside peg in a corner. Bayliss scoffed and said he didn't think about any of that non-sense. If you are concentrating on your foot pegs in a corner you are doing it wrong. You need to be concentrating about 1/8 mile, or further, up the track.

You do what you need to do to get your body in the best position to steer with the bars, whether you know it or not.

Ever ridden on the track with someone missing a leg, or paralyzed from the waist down? Some of those guys hustle around the track pretty fast with nothing to steer with but the handle bars.

Who said anything about concentrating on it?

My point was that once you are past tip in you aren't really steering anymore, shifting weight around does more then trying to manhandle the bars. If I need a little more lean I usually do it by pushing on the outside foot, if I need less, more throttle. I try to only prop on the inside during set up.

Just how I learned it.

There may be some bar activity going on, but its certainly unconscious unless I'm trying to change my line or its a multi-radius corner.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:55 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
These guys are busy getting on with it.
I thought Dovi was riding for Ducati this year? Why he no there? Probably the Valencia test told him everything he needed to know
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:05 AM   #373
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I thought Dovi was riding for Ducati this year? Why he no there? Probably the Valencia test told him everything he needed to know
he is there ,he hurt his neck only did a coupla laps
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:29 AM   #374
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Comon'... it's a long silly season. We might as well have some fun.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:58 AM   #375
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he is there ,he hurt his neck only did a coupla laps
Thanks
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