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Old 11-30-2012, 07:05 AM   #31
Pecha72
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"It's just that the 650 reaches it's limit quickly. Yes, it'll keep up with bigger at reasonable speeds and on twisty roads. But it won't be comfortable"

The big German Motorrad magazine seemed to disagree with you, when they published their test done on the Alps. 2012 Wee vs Tiger1200 vs Stelvio vs Crosstourer. Yes, three 1200cc bikes and one 650cc, that costs roughly half compared to others. The Tiger won, but when you read the story, they liked the Wee, even in this company. The previous 04-11 Wee had already won a similar mountain road test twice before. And rest assured those guys ride the bikes to their performance limits. Naturally it is not as powerful, but there are other really important factors to consider.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:44 PM   #32
bluesman
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They may be right...but in august I was able to do direct comparison. When we were riding in Norway with group of friends (about 15 different bikes) we swapped bikes around to "test". Direct swap from my Tiger 800xc to DL650 was eye opener. I always liked 650 Strom. Not after that test. It felt horribly underpowered and barge-like after tiger. Go figure.
Comparing it with 1200 monsters on tight roads - bad idea...
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:10 PM   #33
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Comparing it with 1200 monsters on tight roads - bad idea...
I would be incredibly surprised if the test didn't say "for the money". If something is nearly free compared to the monster trailies, of course it's great value ...

You get what you pay for. That's true for the V-Strom, too.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:11 PM   #34
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I suspect a lot of this comes down to why you ride.

I ride because I like riding, not "because I like motorcycles", I do happen to like motorcycles, but I own a bike so I can have the freedom get out and go places ... not because I want to own the hottest bike on the street.
[I have a friend with one of those, in the same time he's put 20,000k's on his Tuono I've put 120,000k's on one DL and 20,000 on the next - I think I still have change left for a third DL when I wear this one out ...]

I care that the bike will get me there, pass vehicles in my way, and get me home, without causing me pain or grief in the process. Beyond that, I don't care much how about how pretty it looks doing it. If I'm riding off road, I don't care if I have to slow down for the really rough sections, I'm not competing with anyone but myself.

So most of the "advantages" of the Tiger and the S10 I really don't get any benefit from.

The DL will lose my license quickly enough as it is, and will go far faster than I'm brave enough to go, on or off road.

More power than enough is just unwanted fuel costs and reduced range, better suspension meh, I'll just slow down a little. More weight ?, I could do without that thanks.

On the other had there are the "motorcycle enthusiasts" who actually care that their suspension is better than mine, and that they have more power than they can use. Or that theirs is bigger than mine

So yeah, I'm quite happy with the "adequate" DL, even more happy that it's inexpensive enough that I can just point it up that side trail I spotted without having to worry about the drop in value if it gets a little scuffed and that it's light enough that I can pick it up solo on a steep gravel slope when I screw up. The welded frame/footpegs on the Tiger and the weight of the S10 count against them there.

That's NOT the same as purchase cost, I could have gone for an S10 and nearly did, but it does come down heavily on the "no worries" side of ownership when I take on something a bit ... risky ... I'll take on rides on a DL, that I'd have second thoughts on something twice the cost.

I'm not criticizing the other bikes, or the people who prefer them, I can understand the reasons they prefer them, and they are 'better' bikes in many ways, but the DL fits what I want from a bike better.

I also suspect Suzuki got the equation more right for the majority of riders than Triumph or Yamaha. Relative sales numbers will tell the story there.

Pete
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:43 PM   #35
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I have owned a Tiger 800 and let it go to get the Tenere, have no experience at all with the Wee. Both are great bikes!

Here's my Cliff Notes summary.

1. The Tiger is a far better sport bike. The Tiger screams to be ridden like you stole it. The triple is intoxicating and a blast to ride the piss out of.
2. The Tenere is a better tourer. Yup mass has it's advantages on the open road over long distances. Also wind protection is much better.
3. The Tenere is better off road. After a couple of thousand miles I am no longer afraid of this beast. It's amazing where it will go, yea it's apain in the ass to pickup sometimes, but drop time is directly proportional to confidence.
o
If I never ventured off road I would pick the Tiger, but I tend to do ride off road along with touring so I ride the tenere and my trusty old KLR. The Tenere will go anywhere my KLR will go so the KLR gets lot's of garage time.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:16 PM   #36
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May I remind you guys of inmate here - I think his nickname Av_mech who put almost all of his miles on Tiger 800 offroad and never had all those talks about welded footpegs and being unsuitable or performing bad offroad?
I bet by now he got more miles on his Tiger than 90% of people in this tread including myself.

Last time I had to straighten rear footpeg holder (right side) on my friend's DL650 after removing it I found subframe slightly knocked too - neither him nor me did not know we had to declare his bike write-off because of that. He still riding it. Adventure bike is one you can fix OK, not one that you can't break.

All that does not mean that one or other better of worse on-off road. I just find arguments of better-worse subjective and arguments like "welded passenger pegs" not valid because I work on bikes myself (for hobby). Best bike is one that works for you, yourself. Ride, try, chose. Stop thinking of bike as "investment", "sensible", "economical" (unless it is castrated UJMs like NC - that one is economical sure). Bikes are waste of money by definition. Take a risk to buy one you LIKE. I am repeating what I posted before, no? Sorry.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:43 PM   #37
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Ride, try, chose. Stop thinking of bike as "investment", "sensible", "economical"
I don't have a car and thus I don't agree. Moreover: I "like" all three, hence the thread.

And to restate what I said in the first post: I don't particularly care about offroad performance, but bikes get dropped/kicked over (with or without my help, grumble). I'd imagine a drop on pavement is pretty hard on the footpeg, hence the question. As I said, its a pretty minor concern to me, especially relative to how well the tiger does at long distance.

The breakdown, as I see it now: (assuming similar reliability for all three)

Tenere: Good tank range, low maintenance, nice power.

Tiger: Light/maneuverable, nice power, ...?

Strom: Good tank range, light/maneuverable, most fuel efficient, familiar.


Not sure which of the three has the best wind protection potential, but if anyone has experience on any of the above with aftermarket screens that would help.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:41 PM   #38
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Tiger: Light/maneuverable, nice power, ...?
You have to ride the Tiger to know how nice to Tiger Triple engine is.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #39
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You have to ride the Tiger to know how nice to Tiger Triple engine is.
Yeah, tracking down a roadie will be a pain, the local shop that has demos only has an XC and the windblast was so damned loud above 50-60 mph that's all I could pay attention to.

Also I might have made the mistake of demoing it after the speed triple and tiger 1050...
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:44 PM   #40
bluesman
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
I don't have a car and thus I don't agree. Moreover: I "like" all three, hence the thread.

And to restate what I said in the first post: I don't particularly care about offroad performance, but bikes get dropped/kicked over (with or without my help, grumble). I'd imagine a drop on pavement is pretty hard on the footpeg, hence the question. As I said, its a pretty minor concern to me, especially relative to how well the tiger does at long distance.

The breakdown, as I see it now: (assuming similar reliability for all three)

Tenere: Good tank range, low maintenance, nice power.

Tiger: Light/maneuverable, nice power, ...?

Strom: Good tank range, light/maneuverable, most fuel efficient, familiar.


Not sure which of the three has the best wind protection potential, but if anyone has experience on any of the above with aftermarket screens that would help.
Hundreds of people dropped their Tigers and no harm. Few - kinked lower subframe part. How it is affect riding and keeping bike? No impact on anything except pride and few flakes of powdercoat. It is no MV Agusta F4 or Orange Country chopper. If you worried - cut them off, insert tube inserts and reattach them again in "removable" way. Been discussed with photos on tiger UK forum.

As for practicality etc. - sure, if you live alone and have no car you probably right. But then NC700 would be more sensible, economical and so on and any bike always bad investment. Car too - less so, but still.
Over here we do not drive XXXX cc gas guzzling monsters (even I with 4 kids and wife) so I must admit there is a bit of
"diversity" issue in looks at the question...My 7 seater car takes no more diesel per 100 than my bike petrol and requires basic oil service once in 30 000 km , hence my own reasoning

Can't comment on wind protection - rode naked bikes 50% of time, never understood need for more than average windscreen protection...actually in summer I am a bit annoyed by my "Touring screen" I got with Tiger - too little flow for me. Good side - that screen is noisy but does not create any buffeting for me.
But in my opinion stock S10 and Vstrom both offer more extensive wind protection than stock tiger.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:59 PM   #41
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Hundreds of people dropped their Tigers and no harm. Few - kinked lower subframe part.
True.

All you really have to worry about is the cockpit, instruments, pipe, levers, bars, mirrors, engine cases, and the wheels.

The sub frame seems to be the stronger part.





It does depend depend on the weight carried, conditions, speed etc. Every accident is different.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:11 PM   #42
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Can't comment on wind protection - rode naked bikes 50% of time, never understood need for more than average windscreen protection
Less fatigue in fall/spring and less chill in winter. I like to go to a small screen for warmer months, though.


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True.

All you really have to worry about is the cockpit, instruments, pipe, levers, bars, mirrors, engine cases, and the wheels.

The sub frame seems to be the stronger part.


It does depend depend on the weight carried, conditions, speed etc. Every accident is different.
Looks good to me, all I really worry about is garden variety tipovers, and it looks like they'd be fine. If I had an accident like that one I think the footpegs and subframe would be the least of my worries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman View Post
As for practicality etc. - sure, if you live alone and have no car you probably right. But then NC700 would be more sensible, economical and so on and any bike always bad investment. Car too - less so, but still.
Over here we do not drive XXXX cc gas guzzling monsters (even I with 4 kids and wife) so I must admit there is a bit of
"diversity" issue in looks at the question...My 7 seater car takes no more diesel per 100 than my bike petrol and requires basic oil service once in 30 000 km , hence my own reasoning
True, but if pure practicality was what I wanted I'd get a burgman (or keep my k9 wee), and pure insanity, a streetfighter 848 - I don't want either of those bikes, though. There's a middle, somewhere.
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ph0rk screwed with this post 12-01-2012 at 05:17 PM
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:23 PM   #43
Pecha72
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I would be incredibly surprised if the test didn't say "for the money". If something is nearly free compared to the monster trailies, of course it's great value ...
Havenīt got the mag with me. But I donīt think it said "for the money". See, there are actually over 20 bikes in that test (roadies, sportbikes, etc, cheaper ones and more expensive ones, Ducati Panigale probably tops the price range) and they all get tested within their group, the winners of each group proceeding to the finals. The "simple" aim is to decide, which bike offers the most fun for riding in the Alps. There were about 10 very experienced journos riding them and giving their opinions.

It is not so simple, that bigger is always better. Or that more expensive is always better, money usually buys you better components though, but what really matters, is the overall package. But like I said, they had the Tiger1200 as the best overall package in that group. BTW they had the DL650 and Guzzi Stelvio 1200 just about equal on performance (not in the dyno, but in the context of riding the mountain roads).
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #44
bluesman
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True.

All you really have to worry about is the cockpit, instruments, pipe, levers, bars, mirrors, engine cases, and the wheels.

The sub frame seems to be the stronger part.





It does depend depend on the weight carried, conditions, speed etc. Every accident is different.
Ouch! That hurt! Rear wheel too...

Fully agree on all accounts.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:10 AM   #45
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True, but if pure practicality was what I wanted I'd get a burgman (or keep my k9 wee), and pure insanity, a streetfighter 848 - I don't want either of those bikes, though. There's a middle, somewhere.
As you probably noticed, most people have varied opinions of the bikes you are looking at. We can give you reasons why one bike is better than another, what features are more important, etc., but those are our opinions. Only you can determine what is best for you. Try them if you can, and get the one that seems the best, for you. Regardless, if you find the bike you buy is not the right one, you can always sell it and get something else.
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