Why does the KLR engine suck in HP

[Dino de Laurentiis]

Originally Posted by beergut

WHy does the KLR suck so bad? What can make serious improvements?

As has been stated in the thread already, the DR and KLR has comparable power levels, as do a few other dual sport bikes like the XT 660. The reason is reliability and economy. They are designed to be affordable, so they don't use much exotic materials, and most have engines dating back to the 90s or even 80s in original form. They are also built to last, they really only need an oil change at specified intervals to make them last for tens of thousands of miles without issues.

You can spend the money the factory didn't want to spend to increase performance, but usually the cost outweighs the gains. Not familiar with prices abroad, but just reflowing the head costs like 1/6-1/8 of the cost a used bike. A new carb, a few hundred dollars. Lightening the crank for faster throttle response, like a 1/4 of the cost of a used bike. A new exhaust system and carb jet, again, several hundred dollars (which will add 2-3 hp at most). Boring the cylinder, upwards of 700-800 dollars. This assumes that you can do all the mechanical work yourself.

Having spent all that money, you'll end up with a bike that still doesn't come close to a KTM 690, for either power, weight o chassis components (brakes, suspension, wheels). Bascially, you're paying a lot more than it's worth, and it's also an investment you won't recoup when selling the bike.

-edit- well, the poster above basically said the same thing as me. Serves me for not reading the thread properly.

[beergut]

Hey Wallachian Spikes, I rode the ole USMC 650 on Okinawa in 2006-2008.

Lets face it, truth is I cant afford or get a new bike unless the absolute right deal comes along. I dont see that happening so I have to resort to plan B which is make this KLR to my desires and hang on to it. Because I dont putt around town at 50mph, I have an oil burner.

I am willing to spend about $1000 to make this engine half way decent. If I could address what makes it suck so bad, I will head those challenges.

Im thinking the 685 kit, porting and some valves. Maybe later this summer I will add some cams.

...now to go to the Harley shop to see if I can strap my beast wanna-be to their dyno.

[Wallachian Spikes]

Originally Posted by beergut

Hey Wallachian Spikes, I rode the ole USMC 650 on Okinawa in 2006-2008.

Lets face it, truth is I cant afford or get a new bike unless the absolute right deal comes along. I dont see that happening so I have to resort to plan B which is make this KLR to my desires and hang on to it. Because I dont putt around town at 50mph, I have an oil burner.

I am willing to spend about $1000 to make this engine half way decent. If I could address what makes it suck so bad, I will head those challenges.

Im thinking the 685 kit, porting and some valves. Maybe later this summer I will add some cams.

...now to go to the Harley shop to see if I can strap my beast wanna-be to their dyno.

Semper Fi Beergut. I was at Camp Schwab for a few months in '89. Had a blast in Okinawa. I didn't get to ride KLRs in the Corps but, we were using the 250 when I was in & I couldn't understand why we didn't use the 650. I heard the 250 couldn't handle the sand in Desert Storm & that was why we finally switched to the 650. The 650 is a heavy pig in the sand but, if you give it enough gas it will tractor your a$$ right through it.

A buddy of mine has an '09 oil burner & the 685 kit fixed that problem but, he didn't get everything ported & polished so he only feels a minor power upgrade. They say you gotta do all the porting & polishing to get everything the 685 can deliver but, NOTHING will turn it into a KTM 690. He says the 685 actually lowers vibes though.

Many times in the past money has been tight for me & the KLR was the difference between having a motorcycle & not having one. There are better bikes out there but, a KLR beats the hell out of not riding at all & the versitility of it is hard to beat. I have a 450 KTM for serrious dirt & it's WAAAAY more fun than my KLR but, if I could only have one bike I'd keep the KLR cuz it's just too practicle.

If power is your main concern & you don't care about off road ability, I'd sell the KLR & pick up a good used Suzuki SV 650. You can probably find one for what you'll get out of your KLR & if you've got another $1,000 for engine work, you'll surely find an SV in your price range. Good luck with what ever you decide.

[Gone14s]

The story of the rabbit and the hare comes to mind here. KLR my not be fast but it will still be going when the higher end bikes are sitting it the shops for there tune ups. That and it will carry all your gear to boot.

The KLR has been around for a long time and will be when most of the other bikes have faded away to the shadows. That's just a plan fact.

[GAS GUY]

Originally Posted by Wallachian Spikes

Semper Fi Beergut. I was at Camp Schwab for a few months in '89. Had a blast in Okinawa. I didn't get to ride KLRs in the Corps but, we were using the 250 when I was in & I couldn't understand why we didn't use the 650. I heard the 250 couldn't handle the sand in Desert Storm & that was why we finally switched to the 650. The 650 is a heavy pig in the sand but, if you give it enough gas it will tractor your a$$ right through it.

A buddy of mine has an '09 oil burner & the 685 kit fixed that problem but, he didn't get everything ported & polished so he only feels a minor power upgrade. They say you gotta do all the porting & polishing to get everything the 685 can deliver but, NOTHING will turn it into a KTM 690. He says the 685 actually lowers vibes though.

Many times in the past money has been tight for me & the KLR was the difference between having a motorcycle & not having one. There are better bikes out there but, a KLR beats the hell out of not riding at all & the versitility of it is hard to beat. I have a 450 KTM for serrious dirt & it's WAAAAY more fun than my KLR but, if I could only have one bike I'd keep the KLR cuz it's just too practicle.

If power is your main concern & you don't care about off road ability, I'd sell the KLR & pick up a good used Suzuki SV 650. You can probably find one for what you'll get out of your KLR & if you've got another $1,000 for engine work, you'll surely find an SV in your price range. Good luck with what ever you decide.

Definatly, the 685 kit is all about smoothing out the engine and oil consumption.

Beergut,
Don't for a minute think it is going to solve your hp problem.
The Klr will always be a Klr.You have to accept that and dedicate to it for what it is(if the bike can't adapt to your expectations, then maybe you need to adapt your expectations to the bike, improvise, overcome, adapt)or move on.
Most of engine mods done are subtle and mostly address better driveability, not top power numbers.

Like I said earlier, an accelerator pump is the only thing that is going to give you that "hit" feeling.All the fast bikes have an accelerator pump.

But hey, just relax and refine your Klr and just thump around and enjoy life, your 60 now !! LOL !!

[ram1000]

Originally Posted by beergut

Im thinking the 685 kit, porting and some valves. Maybe later this summer I will add some cams.

If your looking for (HP) value for money spent don't stop at 685cc. For little more you can go with 705 or if they make a bigger piston go for it. The DR 650 is being bored out to 790cc with great reliability and the extra torque is worth a lot. While you have it apart clean up the ports for a good gain in mid-range to top end for no money at all. I spent a couple hours in the head of my DR (my first ever 4 stroke porting effort- although I used to port my (2 stroke mx bikes) and it really felt better on the top end with nothing lost on the bottom. Cost was zero as I just cleaned up the passageways- no polishing involved. The next focus is the cam if you still have cash left. Last- look into larger valves, but this is a big project on these heads. Next time I take my DR apart I'm going to simply bore out the valve seat material using the same valves. This will open up the size of the port into the cylinder maybe just 5% in diameter but the overall effect will be greater because of the increase in volume through that circumference. You may have to increase the cooling capacity as the determining factor to radiator size is basically horsepower and not cc"s. I saw an article years ago where a KLR owner installed two radiators if I remember correctly.
Most will tell you to upgrade to a different bike especially since the new Husky is only $500 more than the new KLR, but one advantage to the existing KLR is you can add power as your budget allows. After these increases you would of course want to upgrade the exhaust to take advantage of the other effects.

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by Gone14s

The story of the rabbit and the hare comes to mind here. KLR my not be fast but it will still be going when the higher end bikes are sitting it the shops for there tune ups. That and it will carry all your gear to boot.

The KLR has been around for a long time and will be when most of the other bikes have faded away to the shadows. That's just a plan fact.

Might of been the case in the 90s, but not now. I'd put KTMs RFS bike up against any KLR any day of the week..

While Japanese motorcycle makers have been asleep, Euro designers have overtaken the dual sport market. The 08 KLR "redesign" didn't help.

[damasovi]

as it has been said, if you don't want or need to go 0-60 under 3 seconds in the dirt, the KLR is a good option, if you want to go to alaska with a well set up bike capable of going there and returning, the KLR will, communing, a lite 2 up bike (for mid size people, so no over 350 lbs couple) and maintenance schedule that won't brake the bank, the KLR is a good option.

IF you want faster I guess the KTM is much better also the 990R but how much does it cost?

All bikes have trade offs, so pick what you want the most.

When I bough my KLR I wanted a bike that did a lot at a fair price. I did not know about FI vs Carb and now 7 years latter, I have not care about that. I have change sprockets, chains and brake paths, plus the oil and filters, and lets not forget tires (that cost me like 50-70 USD). All in 40,000 miles.

Cheers

Damasovi

[beergut]

Originally Posted by GAS GUY

Definatly, the 685 kit is all about smoothing out the engine and oil consumption.

Beergut,
Don't for a minute think it is going to solve your hp problem.
The Klr will always be a Klr.You have to accept that and dedicate to it for what it is(if the bike can't adapt to your expectations, then maybe you need to adapt your expectations to the bike, improvise, overcome, adapt)or move on.
Most of engine mods done are subtle and mostly address better driveability, not top power numbers.

Like I said earlier, an accelerator pump is the only thing that is going to give you that "hit" feeling.All the fast bikes have an accelerator pump.

But hey, just relax and refine your Klr and just thump around and enjoy life, your 60 now !! LOL !!

A number isn't what I'm striving for, better drive ability is the better way of putting it.

I really like my KLR actually and another bike is 95% out of the equation.

[larryboy]

Originally Posted by Echo1

I think the info you have is wrong. Here are some MCN dyno tested rear wheel HP specs from the 2012 edition of the MCN performance index:

'10 KTM 690 Enduro R, 46HP


http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/technical/2012JanPerfIndx.pdf

Originally Posted by Off the grid

The KTM 690 makes 61hp stock.

Maybe you glossed over the above? There isn't any such thing as a single that makes 61 HP at the wheel, it's called parasitic drag. Well, maybe a single on nitro methane can put 60 plus HP to the ground.





To the OP, 36 HP out of a single is very respectable, the weight of the KLR is the problem. A 610 Husky makes the same power, but it's rippin' fast because it's 100 pounds lighter.

[beergut]

Originally Posted by Wallachian Spikes

Semper Fi Beergut. I was at Camp Schwab for a few months in '89. Had a blast in Okinawa.

Oki is a place no Marine will ever forget once they have been there. I did the advanced MSF course on the USMC klr and the dirt is school for the military on the KLR
Semper Fi

[Mikef5000]

Originally Posted by Off the grid

While Japanese motorcycle makers have been asleep, Euro designers have overtaken the dual sport market. The 08 KLR "redesign" didn't help.

Only a person willing to do constant oil changes and valve checks would feel this way.

There are extremely few Euro bikes even in the same ball park as the KLR/DR/XR (not looking as speed, looking at purpose). That being said, the new 650 Terra from Husky is a sweet new entry into this exact market, and is claiming about 50 hp at the rear wheel.

[larryboy]

Originally Posted by Mikef5000

That being said, the new 650 Terra from Husky is a sweet new entry into this exact market, and is claiming about 50 hp at the rear wheel.

They're claiming 58 HP at the crank on the re-badged BMW which is about 46 HP at the wheel.

[Mikef5000]

Originally Posted by larryboy

They're claiming 58 HP at the crank on the re-badged BMW which is about 46 HP at the wheel.

Every dyno's different, but I got my #'s here:
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91450.html

"Compared to the G650’s 50 crankshaft horsepower at 6500 rpm, the TR650 cranks out a purported 58 ponies at 7250 rpm, a 16% improvement.... Our dyno testing of the BMW revealed 44.2 hp at 7200 rpm, so the TR should produce just over 50 horses at the wheel."

In either case, the numbers aren't bad at all, and the price point is good.

I think the primary reasoning behind the low power out of the KLR/DR/XR is that these bikes are at an extremely low price point, and all the R&D it would take to put a new, technologically advanced engine in one would price it out of the destined market.

[AviatorTroy]

Compression would be my guess. The thing is designed to be reliable and run on bad gas anywhere in the world. Oh yea, and be cheap.

Like they say, and engine can be powerful, reliable, and cheap. Any two of the three at the same time.