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Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 AM   #421
mdubya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
OK, I give...Both you and Mdub know more about this stuff than me.

Regarding counter steering, though. I like to watch road racers peel off the wall to attack T1. This is at NASCAR ovals with a road course infield. The technique is pretty physical. No sweep to it at all. Definite bar inputs. I think they call it a pre-turn or something. And it's on the brakes. Point to point like I suggested before. Course these are not MotoGP riders, but something similar at Indy I think.

I'll pay closer attention to T1 entry at the Indy Mile next year. Thanks for the tip.
I think you know plenty.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:10 AM   #422
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All this yammer about sliding the front tire makes me laugh .
Yes it is a technique that some racers use in specific corners at specific tracks.

I tried to learn to do it and found i did not improve my lap times when some others did.
Probably too tense and could not relax.
That' s about the time I actually made it up to the front pack where the fast guys of the day usually ran. It did not take me long to learn i did not belong there, got my boney ass back to the mid pack guys and enjoyed my racing for a couple more years.
Some guys race themselves and their own lap times, they usually live longer

As Clint Eastwood said " a mans got to know his limitations"
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:43 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by DandyDoug View Post
All this yammer about sliding the front tire makes me laugh .
Yes it is a technique that some racers use in specific corners at specific tracks.

I tried to learn to do it and found i did not improve my lap times when some others did.
Probably too tense and could not relax.
That' s about the time I actually made it up to the front pack where the fast guys of the day usually ran. It did not take me long to learn i did not belong there, got my boney ass back to the mid pack guys and enjoyed my racing for a couple more years.
Some guys race themselves and their own lap times, they usually live longer

As Clint Eastwood said " a mans got to know his limitations"

Same here. Just took me longer to learn that lesson.

Got some stuff to hang on the wall, but some broken bones as well.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:13 AM   #424
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Sounds like familiar stories. I started out in CMRA in Texas, then went to CCS southwest, mostly in Arizona (Firebird). Collected some trophies, got used to being in the top 5, and thought I could ride. Then, went to AFM in California in Formula III (Honda RS125's and Yamaha TZ125's) and promptly got my arse kicked to the back third of the pack (there were 30-40 bikes on the grid in those days). What a rude awakening.

Over a couple of years with experience and increased confidence I managed to see the front group on a few first laps. Those guys were sliding and slithering around, knee down, right from the first turn. I decided real quick I was not meant to be there and drifted back to 10-15th place where it was (relatively) safe.

So, compared to the AFM fast guys, I gotta imagine the MotoGP riders are in another universe.... even the slow MotoGP riders.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:51 AM   #425
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Funny story;

Wife and i were at the Daytona 200 a few years ago, ( I had been a sometimes competitor in the old super bike days) she was part of the pit crew back then. But mostly I was a crew member for the big bikes , and a rider in the 250 class.

So she asks me right be fore the start of the race;
" if you were still racing where do you think you would be on the grid today ? "

My answer after look at the posted qualifying times was, not in there
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:58 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Closing the throttle and releasing the front brake will make the front end slide. At that point, only the throttle will stop it from being a crash.
Since i'm ALLREADY OFF the throttle between braking point and apex, where do i close the throttle again ???

Yeah, the pros are on and off the edge all the time, but that they use front end slide as a deliberate household technique, nah...
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #427
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A little something nice to watch:

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Old 12-02-2012, 11:28 AM   #428
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Anyone remember the days of AMA 250's and Rich Oliver's dominance in the last decade of them?
He got a wildcard ride at Laguna Seca back in the '90's on a rented World spec 250, back then all the classes came to Laguna. He was way down in the field in practice, and the Aokis, Hardadas, Biaggis and Melandris of the age were embarassingly quicker.

Some journo asked him what he had to do to catch up, Olivers' respose was "I don't know how they're doing that at all".

Even champions need to learn things, or invent them.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:54 AM   #429
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Anyone remember the days of AMA 250's and Rich Oliver's dominance in the last decade of them?
He got a wildcard ride at Laguna Seca back in the '90's on a rented World spec 250, back then all the classes came to Laguna. He was way down in the field in practice, and the Aokis, Hardadas, Biaggis and Melandris of the age were embarassingly quicker.

Some journo asked him what he had to do to catch up, Olivers' respose was "I don't know how they're doing that at all".

Even champions need to learn things, or invent them.
Loudon 2002 AMA National. Jeff Wood was looking fastest, but had to start from the back after Q races. Oliver made the rounds of the paddock asking riders to hold Wood up. Even my son who was starting 4th row. Of course old timer, Jim Filice, was making a come back of sorts. He owned the joint an won going away. He dedicated the win to his Dad. Went on to say that Loudon was a lot like a mile dirt track. Was a good day to be a fan.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Try it sometime. Closing the throttle and releasing the front brake will make the front end slide. At that point, only the throttle will stop it from being a crash.
You are advicing me to try a technique that will possibly put me in a body bag. I think i'm entitled to some more info.

1. Have you ever personally succesfully used this technique ??

2. How EXACTLY you initiate the front slide and at what part of corner entry ?? ( I expect a step by step tutorial, so i don't end up at the gravel... or dead... )

3. Could the pros slide their front just as a result of a lot of corner speed, rather than intentionally doing it ??

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Old 12-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #431
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.
Could the pros slide their front just as a result of a lot of corner speed, rather than intentionally doing it ??

of course,they go so fast that its unavoidable.So its deliberate in that they know the front will be sliding
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:38 PM   #432
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of course,they go so fast that its unavoidable.So its deliberate in that they know the front will be sliding
I agree.

But some here are saying, it is a technique that the pros USE as a intentional tool in their skill arsenal.

A technique, i should try.

Mdub ???
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #433
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yo !!
Hold up there boys.

No one and I mean NO ONE should try anything like this without proper professional instruction on a race track where there are medical personnel on site if you have a problem .

This is not for the amature to attempt on their own .
I have some experience sliding down the tarmack, it ain't fun , it hurts even in full approved race gear.

Do not let your youth and exuberance over load your skill level. Most of all don't try this stuff on the public road.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:30 PM   #434
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I agree.

But some here are saying, it is a technique that the pros USE as a intentional tool in their skill arsenal.

A technique, i should try.

Mdub ???
Yeah, it's a skill.

As for you trying it?

Get a little dirt bike, and get used to throwing it around. Safe place to learn it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:34 PM   #435
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yo !!
Hold up there boys.

No one and I mean NO ONE should try anything like this without proper professional instruction on a race track where there are medical personnel on site if you have a problem .

This is not for the amature to attempt on their own .
I have some experience sliding down the tarmack, it ain't fun , it hurts even in full approved race gear.

Do not let your youth and exuberance over load your skill level. Most of all don't try this stuff on the public road.
I have some experience sliding down the tarmack/track too, i'm not afraid of the hurt part, more afraid of the cost part... I have been riding 24 years now, mostly off the public roads, off road and rr tracks. I am calling bs on this "technique" .

Mdub ???
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