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Old 12-02-2012, 07:07 AM   #181
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Seems to be a lot of businesses on that list who will be at least partially shooting themselves in the foot by supporting this possible closure, and that makes no sense at all.
+1

There are a lot of climbers sponsored by some of these companys. It makes no sense. I can hear Patagucci telling one of their climbers to "go get on something hard in the desert and put up a first ascent so we can put it in our spring catalog. Oh wait, you can't get into that spot anymore, and if you did, you'll have to downclimb it cuz no new anchors are allowed. oops. we fucked up"
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #182
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+1

There are a lot of climbers sponsored by some of these companys. It makes no sense. I can hear Patagucci telling one of their climbers to "go get on something hard in the desert and put up a first ascent so we can put it in our spring catalog. Oh wait, you can't get into that spot anymore, and if you did, you'll have to downclimb it cuz no new anchors are allowed. oops. we fucked up"
I was thinking of the mountain bike rental/guide outfits I saw listed, but yeah, the climbing equipment suppliers seem to also have set themselves up.

Is Patagonia publicly-held? If so, I wonder if their stockholders would support such an asinine business model.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:47 PM   #183
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I was thinking of the mountain bike rental/guide outfits I saw listed, but yeah, the climbing equipment suppliers seem to also have set themselves up.

Is Patagonia publicly-held? If so, I wonder if their stockholders would support such an asinine business model.
A lot of those guide services already operate in Canyonlands National Monument. I'm sure that would be extended to new areas. Just because it gains Monument status does not mean that it gains "Wilderness" (with a capital W) status. Most of us, I would guess, have ridden White Rim Trail, and that is within a National Monument. I'm sure they would close many roads, but I'm sure many roads would remain open. My fear is always that more roads will be paved, overlooks built, RV friendly camping set up... it just changes the character. There's a similar push to turn Browns Canyon (right here next to Salida) into a National Monument, too. My fear is that it will become overun, and the fun riding turned into a graded or paved road so that the tourist in a Buick can view the canyon.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:13 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by enduro-ince View Post
+1

There are a lot of climbers sponsored by some of these companys. It makes no sense. I can hear Patagucci telling one of their climbers to "go get on something hard in the desert and put up a first ascent so we can put it in our spring catalog. Oh wait, you can't get into that spot anymore, and if you did, you'll have to downclimb it cuz no new anchors are allowed. oops. we fucked up"
+1

If you ever read an interview with Chouinard, they are chock full of contradictions. He openly criticizes climbers, alpinists, weekend warriors and in one interview "suburbanites who have no business being out in the woods at all". The interviewer then mentions "but many of these suburbanites are sporting Patagonia jackets and shirts" to which Chouinard respnoded "yes I know, these customers have built my houses. The hypocricy is not lost on me."
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:16 PM   #185
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I was thinking of the mountain bike rental/guide outfits I saw listed, but yeah, the climbing equipment suppliers seem to also have set themselves up.

Is Patagonia publicly-held? If so, I wonder if their stockholders would support such an asinine business model.

Patagonia is still privately held.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #186
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My fear is that it will become overun, and the fun riding turned into a graded or paved road so that the tourist in a Buick can view the canyon.

What you got against Buick's hater?

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Old 12-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #187
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What you got against Buick's hater?



Nothing against Buicks, just not a fan of Buick-friendly roads.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:39 AM   #188
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A lot of those guide services already operate in Canyonlands National Monument.
Yeah, I forgot about that. In fact, we took a Tagalong tour of the Elephant Hill/Confluence area when I was a little kid. In an FJ 55. About 1975, I think. It's where I caught the canyon country backroading bug, and heard about the death of King Faisal over the radio. REALLY odd sometimes the things you remember...

Canyonlands is a park, by the way-- not a monument.

I can't help thinking that the addition of another monument/park in the area might constrain their business in some way, though.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:41 AM   #189
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Patagonia is still privately held.
Oh well-- so much for that angle.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:38 AM   #190
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I still can't see how the designation as a NM will be in any way beneficial to what we are passionate about and what we do. Don't maginalize this and "hope" it turns out OK. It won't if you do.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:00 AM   #191
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Tent Rocks in New Mexico is a good example. It was recently designated a Nataional Monument.

In the good old days, it was barely discovered and you had a bit of gravel road to get to it but was still enjoyed by many.

Since the National Monument designation, the road in has been paved, it is over-run by tourists in tour buses, no dogs, no bicycles, no geo-caching, etc.
They ruined it in an attempt to protect it.

It was decreed a Nat Monument in the last days of Clinton.

If this one goes down, it will not be any time soon, but would be in the final days of the administration IMO. That is why pressure has to be kept up for the duration. Don't just write a letter and call it good. Write back in a few months and keep in touch.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #192
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I still can't see how the designation as a NM will be in any way beneficial to what we are passionate about and what we do.
Oh no, no, no-- it won't be at all. The area will be totally sanitized like so many other places I love(d).

That's why I live in Wyo-- too windy to be sanitized.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:43 PM   #193
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The Blue Ribbon Coalition’s Executive Director, Gregg Mumm, is in the final leg of his nationwide tour and will be in Albuquerque tomorrow night. I am going to go up to the meeting and ask him what they are doing about this.

Anyone interested can come by:

We have a meeting place for the Tuesday night (7:00 pm) meeting with Greg Mumm. xxxxxxx has graciously invited us to use the conference room at REDW, 7425 Jefferson NE (corner of Jefferson & Masthead).
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:54 PM   #194
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The Blue Ribbon Coalition’s Executive Director, Gregg Mumm, is in the final leg of his nationwide tour and will be in Albuquerque tomorrow night. I am going to go up to the meeting and ask him what they are doing about this.

Anyone interested can come by:

We have a meeting place for the Tuesday night (7:00 pm) meeting with Greg Mumm. xxxxxxx has graciously invited us to use the conference room at REDW, 7425 Jefferson NE (corner of Jefferson & Masthead).
Will you post back with his take on this?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #195
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Will you post back with his take on this?
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