Tiger 800 ABS (non-xc), Super Tenere, '12+ dl650: cost taken from the equation

[Wreckchecker]

Originally Posted by Pecha72

"It's just that the 650 reaches it's limit quickly. Yes, it'll keep up with bigger at reasonable speeds and on twisty roads. But it won't be comfortable"

The big German Motorrad magazine seemed to disagree with you, when they published their test done on the Alps. 2012 Wee vs Tiger1200 vs Stelvio vs Crosstourer. Yes, three 1200cc bikes and one 650cc, that costs roughly half compared to others. The Tiger won, but when you read the story, they liked the Wee, even in this company. The previous 04-11 Wee had already won a similar mountain road test twice before. And rest assured those guys ride the bikes to their performance limits. Naturally it is not as powerful, but there are other really important factors to consider.

Pecha, you and Motorrad are coming from the Euro perspective, & when I rent in the EU, the DL650 is my "go to" bike. It's not just because we had one, it's a well-balanced bike.

What you missed was that I wrote from a huge difference in perspective because of where we are from.


Just to ride down the Rockies or Appalachian Mountains is about equivalent in distance to riding from Norway nearly to Spain! AND never leave the mountains. To do it in the Rockies would be nearly all at altitude that robs engines of power. The Alps and the Pyrenees are beautiful but either as an entire mountain range would fit in the single State of Iowa. You've probably never had to put up with the 2+ day ride of hot or cold temperatures and hammering cross winds to get across just our Great Plains to "play" out West.

Don't get me wrong, we are booked and looking forward to riding the coast of Norway this summer, I love your side of the ocean.

But 650cc here can be marginal. For us it's important to be able to load down with 2 riders & bags (or a month of luggage) for weight, PLUS ride all day, plus maintain more than 130 kph (80+ mph), plus do it at altitude...
... Which is just not a Euro operation.



Again, yes the Wee can keep up but in the US we would be terribly flogging the poor beastie. Flogging a bike is just not fun, so it's not the choice for many on this side of the water.

[cug]

Originally Posted by Wreckchecker

Again, yes the Wee can keep up but in the US we would be terribly flogging the poor beastie.

Oh, you mean because we have such high speed limits? **cough**

As far as I'm concerned the issue of power in the mountains has been pretty much solved by modern fuel injection.

And if you didn't know, there are some mountains in Europe, too. They are called the Alps and aren't that small. If you really want to flog a bike, get on the German Autobahn. Head South, get into the Alps with turns tighter than most American goat trails, have fun there, get back on the Autobahn for a 120mph average speed run home ...

Yes, I have done just that. It was fun. On a 750cc bike. No issue.

Sorry, but that "Americans need bigger bikes / cars because their country is bigger" is just weird (choice of words to be polite, not the actual opinion ).

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by Wreckchecker

But 650cc here can be marginal. For us it's important to be able to load down with 2 riders & bags (or a month of luggage) for weight, PLUS ride all day, plus maintain more than 130 kph (80+ mph), plus do it at altitude...
... Which is just not a Euro operation.

I can understand what you are saying Wreck..



Similar problem except more plain than mountains. Not only that but many of the "Roads" are just a graded track through the bush. So you are stuck between the Alps type setups that work well in the alps and the trail bikes that suck on the slab.

Lucky the S10 came along. Had a Strom but after 200Km of gravelly, bull dust strewn "highway" the relationship ended in my mind.. Never felt quite right. On the tarmac - great.

The Euro centricity of these bikes is understandable but it isn't quite what we need in Australia.

Having said that if you have no job and no particular place to be you could do it on a CT110. Just for spoilt brats like us Aussies it is just easier to use a bike that sucks up the distance, dirt or not, with ease.

[Pecha72]

Yeah, I've ridden in the States. And Oz. Actually Europe (German Autobahn) is the only place left, where you can legally go as fast as you like.

I don't deny at all, that if you've got two people and lots of luggage on board, and want to go fast on the big highways, then the bigger engine serves that purpose very well. That's not really the Wee's territory. But personally I do think it can handle even this quite well, for a 650. Two-up & full panniers it´ll cruise at true 130-140 kms per hour all day, while consumption still stays rather nice, and it can even go 150-160, though that won´t feel as comfortable as on a 1200cc bike. That´s enough for me for Australian highways, for US Interstates, and even for German Autobahns. If I wanted to go faster there, I´d get either a sportsbike, or a fast street touring bike.

I know the S10, Tiger1200 and others are terrific do-it-all bikes, and the Wee can't touch them in certain areas. For me, it was very surprising to even see it compared head-to-head with the bigger options.

Carbs were a different matter, but I don't think altitude really means so much to the current FI systems, unless its the Tibetan plateau you want to cross...

[eakins]

actually it is the choice for many but those hung on CC # only dismiss it all the time.

i toured all over Colorado at speed and high elevation with my wife and full camping gear on my 650 strom. it would cruise 90 all day long with no issues.

it's a very capable bike. if you've got alot more $ to spend then sure get the S10 as it's even more of a bike.
if you don't have the $ to spend the strom will get the job done nicely.

Originally Posted by Wreckchecker

Pecha, you and Motorrad are coming from the Euro perspective, & when I rent in the EU, the DL650 is my "go to" bike. It's not just because we had one, it's a well-balanced bike.

What you missed was that I wrote from a huge difference in perspective because of where we are from.


Just to ride down the Rockies or Appalachian Mountains is about equivalent in distance to riding from Norway nearly to Spain! AND never leave the mountains. To do it in the Rockies would be nearly all at altitude that robs engines of power. The Alps and the Pyrenees are beautiful but either as an entire mountain range would fit in the single State of Iowa. You've probably never had to put up with the 2+ day ride of hot or cold temperatures and hammering cross winds to get across just our Great Plains to "play" out West.

Don't get me wrong, we are booked and looking forward to riding the coast of Norway this summer, I love your side of the ocean.

But 650cc here can be marginal. For us it's important to be able to load down with 2 riders & bags (or a month of luggage) for weight, PLUS ride all day, plus maintain more than 130 kph (80+ mph), plus do it at altitude...
... Which is just not a Euro operation.



Again, yes the Wee can keep up but in the US we would be terribly flogging the poor beastie. Flogging a bike is just not fun, so it's not the choice for many on this side of the water.

[eakins]

check out seat concepts.
same shape & foam for alot less because you reuse your pan
http://www.seatconcepts.com/products...358&id=7866939

Originally Posted by ph0rk

Different strokes, I guess.

I am having the hardest time letting go of my wee - it isn't that I love it or think it is the best bike in the universe, I just can't come up with a bike that will fill its shoes with no compromises.

At this point, I am slightly tempted to just spring for a sargent seat and plow on for another 22k miles. Even with money out of the equation none of these bikes feels like enough of an upgrade over my k9.

Maybe I need to "upgrade" to a KLR


I'm liking the tiger right now but reports of front end bouncing and welded rear pegs are worrysome (not a lot, but there you are). I really wish I could test ride a tiger 800 roadie - the suspension and front hoop are just too weird on the XC.

[Pecha72]

Originally Posted by Wreckchecker

Flogging a bike is just not fun, so it's not the choice for many on this side of the water.

Might sound surprising to you, but here in Finland motorcyclists also prefer big & expensive bikes. Just read a study, where our bikes had by far the biggest average cc of all Nordic countries. And yet we have the smallest network of motorways, very strictly enforced speed limits, and generally our roads are not so well suited for big, heavy bikes. In Central Europe, where the fast motorways are, the average person buys much smaller bikes than here. And it´s been like this for at least 20 years.

In that context the Suzuki DL was a notable exception: it was anticipated, that the DL1000 would sell more than the 650, but in fact it went the other way round. But it´s not possible to compare now, because the DL1000 has not been imported here after 2006, it does not fulfill the current EU emission norms.

(sorry off-topic!)

[ph0rk]

I didn't really intend for this to be a wee-strom vs the world thread. However, I've found mine to be adequate 2-up with luggage in the Appalachian mountains (so, ~5-6000 feet, steep grades, etc). Maybe at 10,000 feet things would be different?


Gripes about my current ride (and things I'd like a new ride to improve on):

Topheavy, sometimes a bit unwieldy in crowded parking lots, especially if there is uneven pavement in the lot (I like backing in without hopping off, I can do that fine 85% of the time on the wee)

Occasionally I get a hint of the old head buffet if I futz with the screen at certain speeds (say, over 70, over 60 if I sit straight up, etc).

It looks, well, utilitarian.

More "f-you" power would be cool, but my bike pulls reasonably hard from 3k if you crack open the throttle. I suppose with the barn door on it right now it could pull harder over 55 mph, but I'm not sure how much I'd really use that - it is easy enough to hit illegal speeds as it is. I expect I'd spend almost all my commuting miles in T mode on the super tenere, for example.

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

More "f-you" power would be cool, but my bike pulls reasonably hard from 3k if you crack open the throttle. I suppose with the barn door on it right now it could pull harder over 55 mph, but I'm not sure how much I'd really use that - it is easy enough to hit illegal speeds as it is. I expect I'd spend almost all my commuting miles in T mode on the super tenere, for example.

I think you are right, about the motor department. Plenty there really. All I'm saying is that the S10 manages to be very relaxed at the same speed. Your life is not in danger either way and T mode is good for getting closer to cars sluggish acceleration. The Wee is popular for a reason, it's just that to move up from there costs a bit.

Just keep the Wee for a while. You will know when it's time to move on. Maybe when it starts blowing smoke?

And by then everything will have Transformer technology and will turn into anything you want at the flick (or scroll) of a trackball via your Android app interface on the Google glasses.

[ph0rk]

Originally Posted by GrahamD

Just keep the Wee for a while. You will know when it's time to move on. Maybe when it starts blowing smoke?

And by then everything will have Transformer technology and will turn into anything you want at the flick (or scroll) of a trackball via your Android app interface on the Google glasses.

Ha! Maybe then I can splurge for the hoverbike add-on.