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Old 12-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #31
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL-erate View Post
Hey ya, Claude!

The big deal? Don't know if you saw the original post before I chose to delete it after all the insults and thread trashing? It was a clearly written and simple description of a very mechanically simple 2WD system that I laid out as a free gift to any who wanted to build it.

Apparently most folks were unable to read the words at all. They added words I didn't say, misinterpreted what I did say, misapplied what I said from how it was intended and described to be applied, disagreed with me over things I didn't ever say, added open insults to my character and intentions and what I had written, accused me of saying things I never said, accused me of theft of other's intellectual property and accused of boasting that other's intellectual property and hard work were actually mine! In addition the posting of piles of huge even gigantic and totally, thoroughly unrelated pictures quickly and completlely trashed the entire thread into oblivion so that all original meaning and intention and benefit was lost. Other than that I guess no big deal?

I'll be talking to you this week if possible...
Wow dude sounds like the whole world is against you. I have a feeling if you were to just quit typing and build the darn thing, whatever it is, and show some pictures it may make more sense than your so well articulated words here. No offense please.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmws View Post
Easy, a hydraulic pump driven directly from the bike motor, 3 hydraulic motors connected through adjustable proportioning valves. Hell, even an old turdherder like me can figure that one out........
OK, I'll probably have my civility and ability to read questioned for daring to post something in the OP's thread, but.....





Sooo, XL-erate we can just say fairly, the other boys on the court didn't let you win, so you took your ball and went home?
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:31 PM   #33
ag_streak
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Stupidest.

Thread.

Ever...


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Old 12-04-2012, 02:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ag_streak View Post
I too would like to see at least a sketch of what you're proposing!

And now for something completely different...

I was thinking in a different direction. "Temporary" electric 2WD.

What if you simply had a deep cycle marine battery mounted on the hack frame and powering an electric motor with chain drive through an electric clutch to a sprocket mounted on the hack wheel, and a push button for your thumb on the handlebar?

Not intended for continuous operation. Just to get you unstuck out of mud or deep sand. You'd still be using your rear tire to provide thrust, but the sidecar wheel would be helping instead of hindering. The electric clutch could engage at the same time the power is applied to the motor, to prevent the motor shaft from turning all the time. It would negate, or at least minimize, the need for a winch for getting unstuck.

Best of both worlds, no?

Or am I once again orating from my anus?
I too have thought about this,just a electric motor above the sidecar wheel with a chain running down to the sidecar wheel.You could use some sort of a adjustable switch ( like a dimmer switch ).I just bought a $49, 2,000lb ATV winch for my hack and thought the winch motor could work for this !!.

Alan..


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Old 12-04-2012, 03:15 PM   #35
matman1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ag_streak View Post
Stupidest.

Thread.

Ever...


I'm hitting my "LIKE" button....you just can't see it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #36
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Wow

Nothing I like better than an argument ! Where to I apply ? LOL On another take on 2wd Yamaha worked with Ohlins to add front wheel assist to some Dakar bikes via a hydraulic motor and pump that ran off transmission I believe. Lots of tractors listed as front wheel assist and some Toro Engineer in Minneapolis built himself a hydrostatic motorcycle with a Yanmar 3cyl diesel powering the pump.DB
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:44 AM   #37
claude
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #38
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For some godforsaken reason, I decided to punish myself, and try once again to see if I could comprehend what the original poster is/was proposing. I think I have it now...

The uniqueness of his design (I think) is this: The transverse shaft providing power to the hack wheel comes from a PTO from the bike's engine (somehow), that's ahead of the hack wheel, and has a sprocket on the end driving a chain back to the hack wheel, which is a standard bike rear wheel with a sprocket.

As opposed to a PTO from the rear wheel/diff of a shaft-drive bike, with the transverse shaft to the hack wheel and u-joints at both ends to allow for suspension movement.

My question is: How the hell to you get/create a "PTO" from a bike engine that doesn't have one? How could that possibly be done with off the shelf components?

But I'll give the idea one theoretical advantage: Look at the second picture in Bieb's post #2. The gearbox is rigidly mounted to the hack frame, which is fixed in relation to the bike frame. Therefore, both jack shafts have to account for suspension travel (with four u-joints).

XL-erate's design, if I understand it correctly, would keep the drive shaft fixed in relation to the hack frame and the bike frame, and only the chain to the hack wheel is needed to allow for the suspension travel. That is pretty simple, and doesn't require u-joints. I just don't know how you spin a shaft off the motor of a stock bike.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #39
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There's a guy on stromtroopers who came up with a external Alt off the left hand side of the crankshaft.That could run a PTO instead of a Alt !!,but nothing would be " off the shelf parts" except the pump and a seal or 2.


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Old 12-05-2012, 12:39 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ag_streak View Post
The uniqueness of his design (I think) is this: The transverse shaft providing power to the hack wheel comes from a PTO from the bike's engine (somehow), that's ahead of the hack wheel, and has a sprocket on the end driving a chain back to the hack wheel, which is a standard bike rear wheel with a sprocket.
That's the way I read it as well. But that's basically the same concept I planned for my own rig (which I don't claim as unique since I've seen similar implementations before). The difference is my concept was to use a sprag clutch bearing instead of clutch plates. In my case, the engine sprocket is on the opposite side of the motor as the sidecar. So the shaft goes from in front of the side swingarm all the way under the motor, and attaches to the engine countershaft via a chain and a second sprocket directly beside and mounted onto the existing countershaft sprocket. The idea is that the sprag clutch only engages when the rear wheel spins faster than the side wheel. That way you only get 2WD when the rear is slipping, which is exactly the way I want mine to work. On my rig there is just enough room to fit the shaft below the engine transmission OVER the sidecar frame to a point just in front of the side swingarm pivot. It's a perfectly straight shot from one side to the other, so no U-joints, and no loss of ground clearance.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:21 PM   #41
YOUNZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NortwestRider View Post
I too have thought about this,just a electric motor above the sidecar wheel with a chain running down to the sidecar wheel.You could use some sort of a adjustable switch ( like a dimmer switch ).I just bought a $49, 2,000lb ATV winch for my hack and thought the winch motor could work for this !!.

Alan..


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Yes, a sprocket in place of a brake disk on the sidecar and a junk yard Toyota starter motor with just a thumb on/off button to modulate the speed. Although, a reverse polarity motor would also provide reverse.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by YOUNZ View Post
Yes, a sprocket in place of a brake disk on the sidecar and a junk yard Toyota starter motor with just a thumb on/off button to modulate the speed. Although, a reverse polarity motor would also provide reverse.
YUP !!!


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Old 12-10-2012, 10:43 AM   #43
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Fly Sniper, I am talking about a motorcycle 2WD. I mentioned the massive Dana 70-80 type limited slip as a simple reference to cluch plate & driven disc surface area. You couldn't get it in the understanding.

The Dana 70-80 is massive for a reason: the relative load. The Dana 70-80 is designed for a 7,000-9,000 lb vehicle. That design also references, or is relative to, the possible coefficients of traction, with possibly huge, wide, aggressive tread 4WD tires. The Dana 70-80 is designed to keep the pinion from snapping or walking up the ring gear when 400-500 HP or 400-500 ft/lbs of torque is applied. The carrier housing is designed to cope with extremely large rotational and dynamic forces. It is also designed to stay straight instead of wrinkled like a pretzel when all these combinations of forces are present at the same time, which calls for massive axle tubes, full floating axles, a monstrous carrier housing and sometimes even extra reinforcing ribs cast into carrier.

Despite all those huge forces at work trying to disintegrate metal in all directions, the Dana 70-80 uses clutch frictions and steel driven discs of about 5.5" diameter and 1/8" and 1/16" thickness respectively. That was the point of reference: the RELATIVE diameter and thickness of friction materials used in successfully applying force from engine to wheels.

A motorcycle sidecar rig does not weigh 7,000-9,000 lbs. It does not have 400-500 diesel HP or 500-600 ft/lbs of diesel torque applied to rear wheels. A diesel's low speed torque occurs at very close to off-idle rpm's so that the shock to drive system is much greater due to mass of vehicle not yet being accelerated: more inherent resistance to applied force. A sidecar rig does not have 42" tall x 13" wide extreme traction 4WD tires either.

A motorcycle sidecar rig doesn't need a Dana 70-80 sized rear carrier or drive system because it is RELATIVELY tiny compared to the described Dana 70-80 equipped truck. Additionally, it has 1/10 -1/4 the amount of applied horsepower and torque. The applied force is far lower.

I never described an unsupported clutch in any way, shape or form. You may have imagined it or interpreted that from what was written. Did you read the part about clutch hubs and bearing carriers/supports and spline shafts? Unsupported? Flex? How? Where?

My original post was not perfect and I expected some folks to have questions about the areas of the design that were confusing because of wording or individual understanding of it. I would happily answer any questions the best I can.

.

XL-erate screwed with this post 12-21-2012 at 12:41 AM
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:02 AM   #44
XL-erate OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
Very interesting thread
Let me understand: you do not want to show anything 'cause of patent (non existing as now right?) infringement fear?
But at the same everyone trying to understand your “words” and not agreeing is an a$$hole?
Why don’t you patent your genius system (no sarcasm) and come back with a product you could sale proving your idea were good?
Right now it is only:

I'd be happy to 'let you understand', if it was possible. No, I didn't say I had patented this particular design, ever. That is hearsay, clap trap, unsubstantiated invalid rumor.

I removed the original post information and modified another post because of the reasons I stated. That is, I had originally posted information on my own original mechanical design with the intent of giving some free help to others, strangers to me: to assist them in building their own system like mine. It was a free gift to bless others with no strings attached.

Because of several replies and responses I decided that nobody around here was much interested in my original design.

I have rewritten the original post to try and make it more understandable and have edited several thread replies I had made because they were unpleasant to read.

XL-erate screwed with this post 12-21-2012 at 12:45 AM
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #45
XL-erate OP
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Originally Posted by claude View Post
Wow dude sounds like the whole world is against you. I have a feeling if you were to just quit typing and build the darn thing, whatever it is, and show some pictures it may make more sense than your so well articulated words here. No offense please.
Hi, Claude!

Well, that's one good way to look at this farce.

However I don't really want my public reputation on the internet to be trashed into oblivion based on misinformation, misunderstanding or inability to comprehend what I wrote. I said nothing wrong, did nothing wrong and only tried to help others in the beginning post by giving a free gift.

Take care, thanks.

XL-erate screwed with this post 12-21-2012 at 12:47 AM
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