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Old 12-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #16
Jäger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snooker View Post
Thanks Jager, that was quite informative and I got a few new ideas. I totally agree about it being up to US in the dual sport community to improve the dual sport map content OURSELVES by taking time to upload maps. I put some tracks from Baja in GPSXchange.com because that was where I found the best Baja tracks before my trip so I tried to give back. I'd like to see DualSportMaps.com take off and grow and I appreciate their initiative. The last time I looked there I couldn't find much for they area I was interested in.
But all your tracks where you regularly ride or riding trips you have taken - Baja, wherever - are now available on DSM for others to use, and helping DSM to take off and grow, just like you wish for. So when somebody looks there, they won't have your same experience in not finding much in your riding areas that they are interested in visiting. Right or wrong?

DSM has pretty much exploded in its few years of existance, although the addition of new trips has faded quite a bit (unfortunately) recently as interest by users seems to have become focused on the associated Android application. But still, the trip data warehouse is growing.

I see over 700 trips to select from in the Utah/Colorado dual sporting areas, and yet only about 8 in the Baja areas. In comparison, I've posted about 30 trips in the Rockies that are within a 100 miles of my house - and that's just one person. So why is it that people can't find anything more than 8 trips for the Baja - there are certainly enough dual sporters riding in Mexico every year, so where are their tracks?

I'm certainly not saying dual sporters have an obligation to share their trips. In fact, I'm aware that there's a segment who believe that telling everyone about their favorite trips will be the kiss of death as people flock to them.

The point is, if the data is lacking, it is not the fault of the data warehouse that it's empty. It's because riders choose not to put anything in it. People look, go "Hmmm, nothing in the area I want to ride in", then promptly leave - never bothering to post up the trips THEY have saved. So the next guy comes along, interested in the previous visitor's home area, finds nothing, and goes "Hmmm, nothing in the area I want to ride in". And he leaves as well. And both find the warehouse has nothing for them.

There will always be the users who want, but will never bother to contribute. They will make up the majority, I get that. But the fact doesn't change that if you want to have something of value, then you have to put some work into it. If the world is full of nothing but takers, then there won't be anything there for anybody. Personally, I don't lose sleep thinking about the majority who are more than happy to download and use my trips but will never take the time to post their own. The world is full of leeches; no point getting annoyed about it, it's just the way it is. I put up every quality ride I find or develop to share with others, on the assumption that it will trigger other like minded individuals to post their rides up as well and grow the warehouse. It just takes longer when most don't bother to actively participate, that's all.

Quote:
I totally understand your point about trails - but roads, even small ones and especially in high desert areas like Utah, are nice to have every one you can find. Sure sometimes they may not be passable anymore and that is a risk.
Yeah, and around here you could include all those roads you're talking about from the sources Garmin and others use, and you'd find over 90% don't even exist anymore. Because very few resource GIS departments put any effort into removing roads/trails that no longer exist. Once mapped, they're there forever.

Think you'd hear about that 90% of roads and trails in your mapping that don't exist anymore from the users who bought your product? Oh yeah...

So how do you deal with that? One corporate policy for mapping in Utah, another for Washington, Idaho, Montana, etc?

That's why I prefer fine detail GPS mapping, and looking to outside sources for navigable trips. I know the trips at DSM and similar websites have been ground truthed and contain (should) data that I will never get in Garmin mapping. Gas stations and "great food here" from Garmin, Delorme, etc? Hah. Another factor is getting your trips via .gpx files at a place like DSM is platform independent - it doesn't matter what make of GPS you use.

Quote:
yeah. I was not talking about the 100k map, but what I was trying to ask about was the difference between the 2 types of Topo 24k maps, the 2-state set vs. the 4-state set.
Apologies. Can't help you with that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #17
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I will definitely give DSM another look and try to contribute when I force myself to take the time... You make some very valid points.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:06 AM   #18
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Bump, since this question is floating around a bit lately.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:05 AM   #19
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Double Bump

If I had 100k topo, city nav and two benchmark maps for CO & Utah, would that pretty much work best for a visit? Utah would be the main focus.
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:55 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
Double Bump

If I had 100k topo, city nav and two benchmark maps for CO & Utah, would that pretty much work best for a visit? Utah would be the main focus.
I use those and they work well. I also have topo 24k but almost never need them for riding.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:25 PM   #21
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Contour lines are in the way

I use the 24k Topo and it works very well for DS and dirt bike trail riding. I also use the same map for routing on street rides. When I look at map on my desktop I have the option to turn off the contour lines. The lines are interesting when building a track or reviewing one that I rode.

On my 60csx I can reduced detail shown on the screen but cannot turn off the contour lines. While following the track at speed the lines are just noise and make it harder follow the track with just a glance.

Anyone out there with a 62s or 78s using the 100k or 24k Garmin map? Can you turn off the contour lines in the display?
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:49 PM   #22
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Contour lines in the way

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm55 View Post
I use the 24k Topo and it works very well for DS and dirt bike trail riding. I also use the same map for routing on street rides. When I look at map on my desktop I have the option to turn off the contour lines. The lines are interesting when building a track or reviewing one that I rode.

On my 60csx I can reduced detail shown on the screen but cannot turn off the contour lines. While following the track at speed the lines are just noise and make it harder follow the track with just a glance.

Anyone out there with a 62s or 78s using the 100k or 24k Garmin map? Can you turn off the contour lines in the display?
I have the same issue with the 24k colorado mapon my montana. I have to zoom in too much to see the roads & then the contour lines swamp the image. There seems to be no way to turn them off, or increase the increment. I also find that it shows a lot of roads/trails that don't exist or are private.
At this point I wouldn't recommend the 24k colorado map to anyone.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
If I had 100k topo, city nav and two benchmark maps for CO & Utah, would that pretty much work best for a visit? Utah would be the main focus.
All I use is Roads & Rec and I have only found a very few roads (all on one topo quad) that did not show on R&R. I have also found that a few roads but more so trails are not there on the ground. I also have old Garmin Topo loaded but virtually never use it.

Using R&R I layed out Mex2Can.com, a new CDR across NM, and have about 1/2 of GWT done.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:17 AM   #24
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I too used R&R maps on my 60. But in the last few months have upgraded to a Montana and along with CityNav I got 24k topo because it is routable and the 100k isn't.

At first it seemed like I would never use the 24k topo because I use tracks and not routes when offroad, AND because the topo lines get in the way...

But I have found 2 awesome uses for the 24k map:
1. Creating a track in Basecamp:
At home in Basecamp, the 24k shows roads on it that CityNav does not. So there was a route I wanted to take but did not have tracks for, what you can do is use BaseCamp and select a few waypoints along the route you want to take, then let it Autoroute for you..
And now the COOOOL part: save that route as a Track! Now you have a Track you can use on your device. Of course it is not tested and proven but it is a start - it is a Track that will never change and can be shared for multiple GPSr's for your group. A 100 mile track took me 2 minutes to make!

2. Getting rid of topo lines on the Montana:
I found a way on the Montana to use the Shaded Relief feature so it shows a 3D terrain without the topo lines. This is only possible by having the 24k topo map on the Montana (ok well can't speak for the 100k map, might be the same...).
But there is a trick to it. First enable the Shaded Relief. Then if you enable only the 24k map it shows the topo lines and clogs up the screen. But if you enable the 24k AND CityNav then the result magically shows shaded relief and a kind of 3D view but no topo lines so your trail/roads show up better.

Here is an example pic of this. The colors are not accurate, they are more of a muted rose orange color on the Montana actually. This is a pic of the bridge in Moab Utah, and a track I recorded in aqua. You can see the tall walls along the Colorado river and it gives you an idea. No topo lines!

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snooker screwed with this post 06-29-2013 at 09:33 AM
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
Double Bump

If I had 100k topo, city nav and two benchmark maps for CO & Utah, would that pretty much work best for a visit? Utah would be the main focus.
CaseyB... since you mentioned Utah, last month I did a 500 mile Canyonlands loop ride (98% offroad). You can read about it HERE plus if you just want the tracks the end it shows you how to get my tracks.

If you are strictly interested in the dozens of cool trails in and around Moab itself then there are MANY places to find tracks online. I would NOT bother to buy the 24k Topo map for this purpose alone, you won't need it if you have tracks. There are Dual Sport places and I hate to say it but TrailDamage.com is good as it has tracks, maps, pics and verbage.

But do not post any followup questions about Moab (and tracks) here and clutter up this thread. This has been covered ad naseum on ADV and the web. (or PM me).

p.s. when you say "benchmark maps" do you mean paper maps from BenchmarkMaps.com or ?? I had never heard of those. I like the Trails Illustrated (now National Geographic maps) in general, they seem to be popular around here. For dual sport and fun moto routes, Butler Maps rock too.
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:14 AM   #26
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Yes the Benchmark maps are paper. They come in a 11x14 book format. They are only available for western states though.

They are really excellent for seeing the big picture. The ones I have show lots of minor roads, but the scale makes them hard to read.

I always copy the parts of the pages I need and carry them on trips. They are useful for planning bailouts when needed.

The New Mexico and Arizona ones are especially nice because the back sections shows the minor roads and land ownership.

As to topos, I have both the old 100k and the 24k Southwest. I find for trip planning I have settled on using Mapsource and just load the results over to Basecamp for loading to the Montana. I tend to use the 100k Topos more for planning because they load and refresh the screen much faster than the 24k. I just use 24k if I need to create a route.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:05 AM   #27
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I was creating a route using Topo 24k the other day and discovered a really nice feature.

When I got to a spot where there was no road, the program automatically switched over to Direct Routing.

I wish City Navigator would do this instead of computing a complicated route around the missing section.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:34 AM   #28
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i just got 62ST which come 100k preloaded.. maps are really inaccurate. i went on the hike and with good GPS signal trail and trailhead was off by almost 1/2 mile! downloaded the map from gpsfiledepot.com, which didn't have the trail but at least trailhead coordinated matched up. i'm thinking i'll just return 62ST and get 62S and use others maps.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by blackjackdavey View Post
i just got 62ST which come 100k preloaded.. maps are really inaccurate. i went on the hike and with good GPS signal trail and trailhead was off by almost 1/2 mile! downloaded the map from gpsfiledepot.com, which didn't have the trail but at least trailhead coordinated matched up. i'm thinking i'll just return 62ST and get 62S and use others maps.
Just got a 62ST too. I can accept that the TOPO 100K isn't routable but I'm wondering what IS accurate on these maps?!
The ROADS are no where near where they should be.
And I'm not convinced the geographical data is accurate.
What IS accurate?

I should have just got the 62S.
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