Moto Guzzi Stelvio (merged) threadfest...

[oalvarez]

^ so very cool

[Sock Monkey]

Originally Posted by rocker59

All a V7C needs to be an NTX is a set of forks and shocks, a set of wheels and tires, and some swoopy Stelvio-looking bodywork by Miguel Galluzzi.

How far do you think you could push the back end up before you ran into issues with the CARC? 30mm? 60?

The forks only have 40mm stanchions, so I'm guessing that would require a new set of triple clamps able to hold at least the 45mm units found on the Stelvio. Beyond that, as you say, wheels, tires, etc., should be bolt-ons.

So, V7 -> V7 NTX:
- shocks (new)
- forks (off Stelvio)
- triple clamps (new)
- wire wheels w/ DS tires (use wheels from Special, maybe swap front for Stelvio front to get 19")
- bash plate (new)
- engine bars (new)
- aux lights/mounts (please go new....Denali LED would be nice )
- handguards (off Stelvio)
- heated grips (off Stelvio)
- luggage (would the subframe need beefing up for this?) (same as Stelvio)
- large touring windscreen (new)

What am I missing?

-SM

[Chuck in Indiana]

Originally Posted by Sock Monkey

What am I missing? -SM

What would happen if you went the other way? -- just use the Small Block engine/clutch/transmission in an NTX. That way you have all the good features of the Stelvio (forks, brakes, suspension, WB, frame, windshield, fuel tank, etc) at a somewhat (???) reduced weight.

I guess it would depend on how you plan on using the bike after you have it.

[pyoungbl]

Originally Posted by Chuck in Indiana

What would happen if you went the other way? -- just use the Small Block engine/clutch/transmission in an NTX. That way you have all the good features of the Stelvio (forks, brakes, suspension, WB, frame, windshield, fuel tank, etc) at a somewhat (???) reduced weight.

In order to be competitive the small NTX would have to be at least 100 lbs lighter than the big girl. Breaking the 500 lb barrier would be even better. That rules out just swapping the power train into the big frame/suspension. The single side swingarm CARC arrangement is really heavy by itself. An 8.5 gallon gas tank would be overkill too. The 5.8 gallon tank on the new V7 Special should be enough for 300 miles. I have not seen any figures for the electrical system so I'm guessing it to be in the 400 watt range. That's a bit low if you want to load up with heated gear and such. LED lighting would help reduce the electrical load. There are some real possibilities here!

I remember lusting for a Quota back in about 1999. The model was delayed again and again. I finally bought a Tiger. Maybe I'll have another chance to scratch that itch.

[Sock Monkey]

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

In order to be competitive the small NTX would have to be at least 100 lbs lighter than the big girl. Breaking the 500 lb barrier would be even better. That rules out just swapping the power train into the big frame/suspension. The single side swingarm CARC arrangement is really heavy by itself. An 8.5 gallon gas tank would be overkill too. The 5.8 gallon tank on the new V7 Special should be enough for 300 miles.

+1

I agree. You would need to start with the V7 to keep the weight down. MG USA lists the V7 Special at 395lbs "curb weight" (which used to mean fully fueled and ready to ride), so even adding all of the "NTX" goodies it should remain well under 500lbs (maybe 450'ish?....I can't imagine the engine bars, bash plate and luggage weigh much more than 50lbs).

-SM

[oalvarez]

Originally Posted by Sock Monkey

+1

I agree. You would need to start with the V7 to keep the weight down. MG USA lists the V7 Special at 395lbs "curb weight" (which used to mean fully fueled and ready to ride), so even adding all of the "NTX" goodies it should remain well under 500lbs (maybe 450'ish?....I can't imagine the engine bars, bash plate and luggage weigh much more than 50lbs).

-SM

could the V7 frame support all of which is being suggested?

[Sock Monkey]

Originally Posted by oalvarez

could the V7 frame support all of which is being suggested?

My biggest concern would be the subframe and if it could support the luggage, especially offroad. I've never seen a V7 stripped of bodywork, so I wouldn't even want to speculate if it's up to the task.....

-SM

[Precis]

Originally Posted by Sock Monkey

My biggest concern would be the subframe and if it could support the luggage, especially offroad. I've never seen a V7 stripped of bodywork, so I wouldn't even want to speculate if it's up to the task.....

-SM

I had a 650 NTX; my wife had a 650TT. A big advantage (or not?) of using a current small-block bike in an ADV machine would be the fuel injection system, assuming it can be remapped for more low-down torque.
One issue to consider is that the gearbox casing is part of the frame, and that the swingarm pivots on the casing too. So you'd need to fab up a stronger swingarm pivot. One that's in line with the UJ would be good, to maintain drive-line length during rear-wheel travel.
Also, adding longer rear shocks will make the UJ spins in an inclined position all the time - you really need a dual UJ rear end.
Sticking on the monster forks from the Stelvio defeats the object - I'd be looking for something off about a 530 KTM as a maximum; the BMW 650 guys use Yamaha 450 forks.
Ditto sticking the small-block motor in the Stelvio frame - all that would do is save about 50lbs and cut power in half.
There is no "sub-frame" on the small-blocks - at least not in the older ones - it's steel tubing all the way to the rear seat & mudguard mount.
If they're stiill using bicycle ball-bearings in the steering head, I'd use taper-rollers, I prefer 21" front wheels and an alloy bash-plate would be the work of minutes for a competent sheet-metal worker.

[ikonoklass]

Any thoughts on whether the California 1400's engine will make it into the Stelvio?

[Renman1117]

Originally Posted by ikonoklass

Any thoughts on whether the California 1400's engine will make it into the Stelvio?

Why would you want to do this?

[rocker59]

Originally Posted by Sock Monkey

How far do you think you could push the back end up before you ran into issues with the CARC? 30mm? 60?

The forks only have 40mm stanchions, so I'm guessing that would require a new set of triple clamps able to hold at least the 45mm units found on the Stelvio. Beyond that, as you say, wheels, tires, etc., should be bolt-ons.

So, V7 -> V7 NTX:
- shocks (new)
- forks (off Stelvio)
- triple clamps (new)
- wire wheels w/ DS tires (use wheels from Special, maybe swap front for Stelvio front to get 19")
- bash plate (new)
- engine bars (new)
- aux lights/mounts (please go new....Denali LED would be nice )
- handguards (off Stelvio)
- heated grips (off Stelvio)
- luggage (would the subframe need beefing up for this?) (same as Stelvio)
- large touring windscreen (new)

What am I missing?

-SM

The small block has no CARC. It's got a standard swingarm and bevel box. They used modified versions in Dakar 20 years ago, so they can handle a little more travel.

I don't think this mythical 750NTX needs the USD 45mm Marzocchi.

H+B already make racks for the V7, so I don't think luggage will be an issue.

[rocker59]

Originally Posted by Sock Monkey

My biggest concern would be the subframe and if it could support the luggage, especially offroad. I've never seen a V7 stripped of bodywork, so I wouldn't even want to speculate if it's up to the task.....

-SM

No. No way the small block chassis can handle any off road...





(rear drive is from the Tonti California on both of these, with a custom swingarm).

[espi]

correct me if I'm wrong, but 21" front & 18" rear....

or would it be better for most to be 19" front & 17" rear..

[ikonoklass]

Originally Posted by Renman1117

Why would you want to do this?

The 2012 appears to be on par power-wise with my 2005 GS. I would want a bit more.

[Sock Monkey]

Originally Posted by rocker59

No. No way the small block chassis can handle any off road...





(rear drive is from the Tonti California on both of these, with a custom swingarm).

They must be sporting that new weightless, "invisible luggage" that I heard NASA was working on......

-SM