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Old 12-07-2012, 01:48 AM   #871
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[QUOTE=troy safari carpente;20195626]Um... not quite...



Ah... yes;

What I am alluding to is this HRC statement:

[B][I]TEAM HRC will give full support and hopes that the riders are on their way to recovery. We will communicate any news on their condition, as we will inform you on the riders
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:59 AM   #872
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No other Brazilian?

But if geographics is the thing, then why not aonther Brazilian? Bluebull, you met sized them all up when you raced there... Who comes to mind for you?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:59 AM   #873
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Um... not quite...



Ah... yes;

What I am alluding to is this HRC statement:

TEAM HRC will give full support and hopes that the riders are on their way to recovery. We will communicate any news on their condition, as we will inform you on the riders’ participation of the 2013 Dakar Race.

And how they (with the short timeframe available) intend to proceed towards the rally in January, and the immediate future thereafter; as far as their riding staff is concerned.

There is no doubt on that front that Felipe and Sam have recieved (and will continue to be treated) with the best medical care available, and we hope that both make a full recovery - some extra positive energy being sent to Felipe and his family's way just now; at what must be a most worrying time.

As far as the rider roster for the DAKAR is concerned, the word is that after Sam's accident; there were no immediate plans to look for a replacement for january... ie: go with the remaining four rider team.

When Zanol bit the dirt shortly thereafter... suddenly 24 hours on and HRC are looking at going to the startline with a 40% depleted armarda... before they even start.

The question is for mine - will they start with only these three, or look for (one or two) riders to fill the spots?

Obviously the entries, bikes, team logistics (ie. fiscal investment and planning) are already in place and have been budgeted/expended...

Does the management now just take the bullet on 40% of that investment, or look for a mercinary to come in at the 11th hour (it's happened many times before).

In the case they DO look to go down that route... next question is (given that the HRC effort is based on several global affiliates within the HONDA worldwide family, who have each contributed to budget/rider input from their respective geographic regions); do they look at picking a replacement SOLEY based on geographic/demographics... or hire the mercinary that is best for the job - regardless of WHERE they are from.

I would think that an already existing long term affiliation with an established national HONDA satellite team, a prior winning record in a number of major races over the last few years, many of these over other existing top level DAKAR competitors, one who previous DAKAR experience/finish AND has all of the applicable FIM licences etc. to do the job, just pack the helmet, boots and neckbrace and jump on a plane...

When I put all this in my melon shaped database on Tuesday... one name popped up on top of my short list... but I am sure there are others out there as well.



Just for the record... Jake isthe younger of the Smith boy's (Todd is his elder brother)... it is just that Jake got an earlier start on the Rally scene... by placing second - on debut - in the 2007 Australian Safari; at just age 18...

Oh... did I mention, youth, talent, experience and results in my credentials comment above...?

Five Oz Safari starts... two wins, two seconds, one broken leg (2011) while leading...
and a list of other Aussie cross country rally, desert race, MX and SX victories under his belt



Fucking tapatalk plus 3-4 asahis!!!!

Anyway Troy my post was 3 questions for the GU RU:

1. What will HRC do?

2. What should HRC do?

3. How much would it take to defect marco over from ktm?
$1m, $3m or north of $10m? Why have all this commitment and not go full alien status? What's to lose? $30m if the japs fold up their cards in light of pretty tough circumstances?

Imagine the momentum coma would generate ? It would be full blood rallye racing. Suddenly we'd have 2 titans fighting each other v helping each other. It would be 14 days of rallye war!

rmhrc628 screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 02:04 AM
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:08 AM   #874
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Originally Posted by rmhrc628 View Post
Fucking tapatalk plus 3-4 asahis!!!!

Anyway Troy my post was 3 questions for the GU RU:

1. What will HRC do?

2. What should HRC do?

3. How much would it take to defect marco over from ktm?
$1m, $3m or north of $10m? Why have all this commitment and not go full alien status? What's to lose? $30m if the japs fold up their cards in light of pretty tough circumstances?

Imagine the momentum coma would generate ? It would be full blood rallye racing. Suddenly we'd have 2 titans fighting each other v helping each other. It would be 14 days of rallye war!
Hey guys let's not discount Helder, I know where his sights lay this year and it's not making up the numbers !

Go Helder
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:27 AM   #875
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Hey guys let's not discount Helder, I know where his sights lay this year and it's not making up the numbers !

Go Helder
Exactly...

My musings as to possible replacements, were with regards to securing competent "second tier" riders with which to replace the fallen team members of Sam and Felipe for Dakar in january... not contract negotiations to additonal "factory guns" for the future.

Given that Helder is the teams "spearhead" rider (based on past form, results) and with Sam and Zanol out of action, logically (based on prior team hierachy/current form/previous results/resumé), one would assume that this would bump Pizzolito and JC up from the (previous) #4 and #5 spots on the roster... to team pos. #2 and #3.

Question: bring in (one - or two) mercinaries from the Honda global fold, to pick up the #4 (and #5 ?) spots... or just cut the losses and go with the three remaining; of the original five?

As I said in previous post... statistically speaking; that is 40% less rider firepower/backup out on the course than originally planned for... Conversely, it means that the logistical resources already allocated (personel/mechanics etc.) can now be focussed on the job of getting three riders through the race instead of five (that's 33.3% input per entry as opposed as 20% per entry originally), which on paper maybe sounds good...

But as someone else pointed out once... sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen can fcuk up the recipe?
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:47 AM   #876
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1. The most important thing is that Zanol will get better. Fingers crossed, good thoughts and F5 slow claps heading his way.

2. Buying Coma or Despres is a no go, and I don't think HRC even really tried. They have career long commitments and deep personal connections with their handlers and mechanics. They won't leave big O at the end of their career to fix a new program that might take 3-4 years to produce a Dakar winner. They have a better chance of winning another title in '13 and/or '14 and then retire.

3. HRC has a strategic problem now. If you look at the Rally Maroc stage listings, Sam and Felipe were the fast guys who could build up pressure and render quick assistance when necessary. Pizzolito and JC were way back most of the time, bringing up the rear.

Helder is a semi-alien, but without great backup, he's back to where he was on his Yamaha.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:58 AM   #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
1. The most important thing is that Zanol will get better. Fingers crossed, good thoughts and F5 slow claps heading his way.

2. Buying Coma or Despres is a no go, and I don't think HRC even really tried. They have career long commitments and deep personal connections with their handlers and mechanics. They won't leave big O at the end of their career to fix a new program that might take 3-4 years to produce a Dakar winner. They have a better chance of winning another title in '13 and/or '14 and then retire.

3. HRC has a strategic problem now. If you look at the Rally Maroc stage listings, Sam and Felipe were the fast guys who could build up pressure and render quick assistance when necessary. Pizzolito and JC were way back most of the time, bringing up the rear.

Helder is a semi-alien, but without great backup, he's back to where he was on his Yamaha.
Tapatalk god willing;)

HRC doesn't have a strategic problem - they have a nightmare scenario of effectively a 5 man team now really 1 man. As much as I love JC he's first to admit he's no alien. There is now far less 'pressure dispersement' and as such more stress on helder. Effectively there is a 66.66% reduction in the team of elite HRC riders. That calls for drastic measures.

Economics always comes into it. Long term anyway. If I were HRC given how late it is in the game, I'd throw a bait to coma - see he if bites. LOTS to lose not much to gain. Give him $5m january money. Then come February HRC will have a dakar win or mondo experience.

Btw does ANYONE actually know wtf happened to Sam and zanol ?

Troy I would still like to hear your answers though. :)
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:19 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by rmhrc628 View Post

Economics always comes into it. Long term anyway. If I were HRC given how late it is in the game, I'd throw a bait to coma - see he if bites. LOTS to lose not much to gain.
There is no way Coma would go elsewhere, nice newly minted 3 year contract, best team last decade, big bucks, money for nothing and chicks for free.............why would he even be tempted ?
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:27 AM   #879
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There is no way Coma would go elsewhere, nice newly minted 3 year contract, best team last decade, big bucks, money for nothing and chicks for free.............why would he even be tempted ?
Honda shit all over ktm with money. HRC make the pumpkin company look like a fruit stand on the old Hume hwy.

Why?

Same reason anyone jumps - happens all the time in sport. Deepest pockets and biggest balls always wins. Fame fortune and reputation - winning Honda its first Dakar in 25 years, a smart accountant would structure the deal so that he gets a cut of every 450x sold from then on. Selling 25000 crf450x per year would quickly add up.

Surely coma is not getting $3m per year from the pumpkin company? Rallye is not that big is it? Is it;)?

Honda could rent him for a month. If he wins he has first right of refusal.

Nothing to lose for HRC.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:31 AM   #880
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Originally Posted by Flood View Post
1. The most important thing is that Zanol will get better. Fingers crossed, good thoughts and F5 slow claps heading his way.

+1000

2. Buying Coma or Despres is a no go, and I don't think HRC even really tried. They have career long commitments and deep personal connections with their handlers and mechanics. They won't leave big O at the end of their career to fix a new program that might take 3-4 years to produce a Dakar winner. They have a better chance of winning another title in '13 and/or '14 and then retire.

Kaching! Ironclad It would stupify me if Marc or Cyril left the Mattighoffen family... maybe for an OBSCENE amount of money... but even then... I wonder. Rallyraid isn't MotoGP/F1...

3. HRC has a strategic problem now. If you look at the Rally Maroc stage listings, Sam and Felipe were the fast guys who could build up pressure and render quick assistance when necessary. Pizzolito and JC were way back most of the time, bringing up the rear.

Helder is a semi-alien, but without great backup, he's back to where he was on his Yamaha.

Three for three from the f5's own inhouse powerhouse flood! Spot on... and part of the reason I wonder how HRC's thought processes are regarding (any possible) replacement... realistically for it to be any sort of contribution to the effort (more than just filling up the saddle space) it needs to be a rider capable of playing a viable "backstop" to Helder... not trundling along 40 minutes to an hour back down the field.
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Economics always comes into it. Long term anyway. If I were HRC given how late it is in the game, I'd throw a bait to coma - see he if bites. LOTS to lose not much to gain. Give him $5m january money. Then come February HRC will have a dakar win or mondo experience.

You should stop burning that Motul engine oil in the incense burner at home rmhrc628... There is not a snowflakes chance in hell, that at this late stage, any rational thinking homo sapien would even consider the ludicrous notion of offering an already contracted, professional, long term, multiple rally and title winning rider ANY sort of financial sum (no matter how big it was) to lure them away from KTM to HRC with only weeks to the event starts. Coma has a CONTRACT ffs! What are you smoking?

Even if HRC did think about recruiting one of the Mattighoffen aliens... it's sure as hell not going to happen for 2013... and not at the 11th hour for the biggest race on the calender...

Or are you just pulling our leg...?

Btw does ANYONE actually know wtf happened to Sam and zanol ?

Troy I would still like to hear your answers though. :)
As far as the exact circumstances/details surrounding Sam and Zanols testing accidents in California... it has been made crystal clear (to those in the loop) THAT public announcement is for the HONDA HRC Rally management to make... what details they subsequently release, and when that will be... only they know.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:37 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
As far as the exact circumstances/details surrounding Sam and Zanols testing accidents in California... it has been made crystal clear (to those in the loop) THAT public announcement is for the HONDA HRC Rally management to make... what details they subsequently release, and when that will be... only they know.
That'll do.

Nicely done Troy :)

I do use motul in my xr, 3 crfs, 1 Fatcat and 1 trail 70;)
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:20 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by Flood View Post
1. The most important thing is that Zanol will get better. Fingers crossed, good thoughts and F5 slow claps heading his way.

2. Buying Coma or Despres is a no go, and I don't think HRC even really tried. They have career long commitments and deep personal connections with their handlers and mechanics. They won't leave big O at the end of their career to fix a new program that might take 3-4 years to produce a Dakar winner. They have a better chance of winning another title in '13 and/or '14 and then retire.

3. HRC has a strategic problem now. If you look at the Rally Maroc stage listings, Sam and Felipe were the fast guys who could build up pressure and render quick assistance when necessary. Pizzolito and JC were way back most of the time, bringing up the rear.

Helder is a semi-alien, but without great backup, he's back to where he was on his Yamaha.
I love this post - my thoughts exactly

A little birdie told me something: Seems Sam`s Fairing roadbook arrangment came loose andthe cables ended up getting snagged in the front wheel? Suspension causing sam to crash. ........If this is true, its a shocking oversight on the part of someone who working on that bike, but its not a fatal flaw for the Honda bike.

For the naysayers, I'd like to further suggest that the two crash incidents were not related at all. Top riders sometimes crash in training too. Sam crashed 15 minutes into the ride. Felipe crashed quite a bit later (The incident reminded me of Luca Manca's crash more than anything else. Im just really happy Felipe seems to be responding already. Strongs, Felipe!!). These things happen, don't forget Fretigne who crashed training for Dakar in 2010. Its why you see the KTM guys testing in October and early Nov latest, right? Its also why you hear Cyril talking about doing more gym work so that he does not get injured in the videos.

I also dont think that riders brought in to fill a position are necessairly jinxed to fail either. The only thing that might be in question is the possible lack of physical preparation by these riders. Even so, they are still pretty fit having participated in other events etc.

I love Helder, but it would be silly for Honda not to consider some replacements. Whether they actually fill them will depend on the strategy adopted. The question I think they will be asking is if they want to risk a strong performance on second choice riders or just some water carriers who will at least have good chance of finishing.

STRONGS FELIPE!!
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:28 AM   #883
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Lot's of speculation, how is MC's shoulder doing by the way, any news on that - would be an enormous risk to even contemplate trying to entice a injury recovering rider, even an Alien - it just won't happen

We know Sam is out for 2013, but we still don't know if Philipe has much more than a bloody bad headache at the moment - recover quick Philipe.

Personally, if Philipe is not fit then my money would be on Jaun Carlos levelling up the Honda SA numbers
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:41 AM   #884
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Sam...

I was looking forward to seeing Sam do well.

Wondering if HRC could lure Jonah out of retirement for one last kick at the can with a full factory ride?
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:07 AM   #885
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I was looking forward to seeing Sam do well.

Wondering if HRC could lure Jonah out of retirement for one last kick at the can with a full factory ride?
Sam is still only 23 - we will all see plenty of him, let's hope the wrist is good for the Desert Challenge at the end of March; onwards and upwards.

More of that after Jan

A bit of de j'a vu on that one from last year
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