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Old 12-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #49816
fritzcoinc
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You all might have guessed that things are pretty slow here in the Oil Patch with oil at a stinking $85 a barrel. Good for you at the pump, bad for the Houston economy, good for my post count! Good night
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #49817
Sub Zero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3girlsdad View Post
one of my regular riding buds came home with this yesterday. fuel injected, plated from the factory. had 147 miles on it apparently hadn't seen dirt. used words like orgasmic after he rode it. i haven't ridden it yet, but can't wait.

Pshh!! who cares about the seat! hell id even consider taking it off. im not gonna be sitting down while haulin ass though the FL sand whoops and trails actually I cant relate to ever being uncomfortable while riding a dirt bike on the street for long periods of time. (long periods of time meaning 100 miles in a day or more) must have something to do with my sweet young 21 year old ass cheeks
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:21 PM   #49818
Schultz!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pngaudioguy View Post
I should set either my race sag or spring length one of these days. I guess I don't ride the bike hard enough to know the difference. I adjusted the rebound rear and front until it didn't piss me off, and then went out and enjoyed being on the damn thing.

That right there is the key! being content and or satisfied with the setup

Its chasing the personal idea of "perfection" that get me in trouble

Simple rule I have found out, unless your either board or not happy with the way something works Don't fuck with it!
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:36 PM   #49819
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Originally Posted by fritzcoinc View Post
I am appaled to hear an ex Ford engineer, WITH Q-1 AND QS9000 training, tout a measurement system that has low repeatability.

Fritz you hurt me allot !

Never have I claimed to be one of them Engineers.... I was and am a technician, my brain wasn't removed of all practical common sence at graduation.( i kid i kid)
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #49820
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Originally Posted by Schultz! View Post
That right there is the key! being content and or satisfied with the setup

Its chasing the personal idea of "perfection" that get me in trouble

Simple rule I have found out, unless your either board or not happy with the way something works Don't fuck with it!
I'm really bad at that being content thing. So far my XR has done everything I have asked of it, but I still want to see what I can do to make it better (like a fork brace). I'm only 150 pounds soaking wet, so I haven't had much trouble with the stock springs, but the front end still dives more than I would like.

This is also only my 2nd bike I've owned, and the first I've ridden on the street, so I have a lot of learn still.
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Originally Posted by kenny61 View Post
figures...my stud was rusty I played with my nuts a little and it cranked right over
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #49821
Schultz!
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More suspension theroy

One thing I forgot to point out about the rear suspension on a linkage bike is that the linkage depending on its geometry can be "progressive" or "linear". In most of my studies almost all linkage bikes have a progressive rear geometry making the force applied to the wheel while riding in the compression direction increase through the suspension travel allowing the suspension to absorb small stuff while not bottoming out when hitting harder terrain.

So purely as a example lets say at full rebound it takes 50lbs to move the shock 10mm, at bike plus rider weight lets say (static condition) 350lbs will move the rear shock 50mm now lets say you got a bit too drunk at the local bar and scored yourself one of them "snow cows" (women in the upper parts of Michigan) apply a extra 300lbs to the rider plus bike weight it will compress the rear shock let say 35mm. Once the hang over is worn off and you got away from the heffer you can plot your suspension travle based on weight vs MM. this would result in a curve, the curve will illustrate how many lbs to mm of suspension travel based on the position in the travel. knowing this can allow you to change either your spring or shock valving to better suite your needs. Another thing that allot of guys found out is using lowering links on the back of the XRL changes this geometry and from the testimony I have read it appears to allows the rear suspension to not progressively get as firm though its travel vs the stock link.


That sexy KTM 500 that was posted has a very close to linear spring rate due to the force created by the rear wheel is not mechanically increased or decreased by a linkage setup. A old co worker had a older KTM525 (non linkage like that 500) and he was raving how a progressive rear spring really improved his suspension setup.

Just more food for thought
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Schultz! screwed with this post 12-08-2012 at 05:51 AM
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:32 PM   #49822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Falcon View Post
I'm really bad at that being content thing. So far my XR has done everything I have asked of it, but I still want to see what I can do to make it better (like a fork brace). I'm only 150 pounds soaking wet, so I haven't had much trouble with the stock springs, but the front end still dives more than I would like.

This is also only my 2nd bike I've owned, and the first I've ridden on the street, so I have a lot of learn still.
I salute you falcon! this thing kicked my ass all over the Arizona dessert and I'm close at 140ish hence the super moto future (btw seeing the ex marine tag I'm sure your muscle mass is a bit more then my scrawny asses)

A trick some of the guys over at TT were doing is draining the stock fork fluid and replacing it with Type F ATF (no friction modifiers like normal ATF) or 10wt jack oil to help with the front end dive issue.

My solution came via a 2000 cr250 and I'm with ya on still needing to learn allot
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Schultz! screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 05:36 PM Reason: i kernt speel
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:42 PM   #49823
taco250
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Any of you famili"ar with an inmate hear that goes by "Wachs"? I know him a little from living in Central OR and he got one of the first 525 factory DS bikes the first year they were available. He puts a Acerbis 6 gal tank on it and has ridden from Bend OR to Blackrock NV (ever heard of burning man?) several times going through the desert. He stands up most of the way. The Kmart Trash Machines are definitely on the dirt oriented side of DS but we all know that. They need more frequent maintenance 'cuz they're really tuned down race bikes. Otherwise, they're really well set up for offroad. If I could, I'd have a 250 or 300EXC for dirt play only to go along with my XRL. However, if I want to do multi day tours like TAT, the XRL is more appropriate IMO.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:02 PM   #49824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Falcon View Post
I'm really bad at that being content thing. So far my XR has done everything I have asked of it, but I still want to see what I can do to make it better (like a fork brace). I'm only 150 pounds soaking wet, so I haven't had much trouble with the stock springs, but the front end still dives more than I would like.

This is also only my 2nd bike I've owned, and the first I've ridden on the street, so I have a lot of learn still.
You can always shim or use a spacer to stiffen up the forks. If you dont like the way it turns out. let me know and ill send you another set of stock springs that I have. check out this link. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761715
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #49825
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Thumb Super easy, simple, free, reversible fix for fork boots bunching up with fork brace

I just installed my RSW fork brace, and after contemplating how to keep the fork boots from bunching up and twisting/deforming, I came up with a super simple, easy, and reversible way to keep the boots looking and working like stock, with NO cutting or destruction of the boots in any way. And they can be put back to stock length if needed

I have my bike up on my stand for work, so its level and very easy to turn the front wheel to get to stuff. What I did is measured the distance between the fork boot pleats before I put the brace on.....then once the brace was installed, I slipped the boots down where they needed to be....and pulled down fork boot pleats until I had the same distance between the pleats as I did stock before the brace. It took 6 pleats compressed down to the bottom to get the stock fork boot length between pleats.

I then took a vey small nail, and made 6 holes in the top of the 6th compressed pleat that lined up with the 6 drain holes in the bottom of the boots, and ran small zip ties down through the top holes and through the drain holes, and cinched them up. That compressed the bottom 6 pleats tightly together, and gave me back the stock boot length look, and looks VERY good with the brace installed.

You need to unclamp and slide up the bottom of the fork boots of course to reach in and thread the zip ties through the drain holes......but the holes needed to be made are so small that they are completely invisible....and since I used a nail instead of slicing, the holes will never tear. So the boots could be put back to stock length with no damage whatsoever.
You need to use the zip tie size that comes for tying excess computer wiring etc...the smallest you can find. I bought an assortment in a plastic jug from Wal-Mart, and these were the smallest in the collection.

The finished job looks very clean and professional, and will keep your fork boots from binding/twisting and prematurely wearing out/tearing up. Plus it just plain looks good

My wife took some pics, I'll try and post them up....but I suck at picture posting, so I can't promise anything

I hope this helps somebody out....it was easy to do, and fixes a big problem that most of us fork brace users end up having to put up with
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #49826
Mossy-Back
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schultz! View Post
I salute you falcon! this thing kicked my ass all over the Arizona dessert and I'm close at 140ish hence the super moto future (btw seeing the ex marine tag I'm sure your muscle mass is a bit more then my scrawny asses)

A trick some of the guys over at TT were doing is draining the stock fork fluid and replacing it with Type F ATF (no friction modifiers like normal ATF) or 10wt jack oil to help with the front end dive issue.

My solution came via a 2000 cr250 and I'm with ya on still needing to learn allot
Thanks for the info. I don't know about having more muscle mass, I'm pretty skinny, and I haven't really worked out in about 2 years since I got out. I would love to get some USD forks, but I've got more riding to do and other upgrades to buy before I spend money on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben99r1 View Post
You can always shim or use a spacer to stiffen up the forks. If you dont like the way it turns out. let me know and ill send you another set of stock springs that I have. check out this link. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761715
Thanks. I'll be in touch.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny61 View Post
figures...my stud was rusty I played with my nuts a little and it cranked right over
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:19 PM   #49827
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Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
Nice seat.






NOT!!!!

Yeah, ain't the Renazco is it Steve? Very, cool bike if you use it like it should be used. But as a pure dirt bike, it's a pig compared to a 250 smoker, which would feel positively toy-like after riding any 450+ thumper, and it would kill me to ride that thing eight hours a day-and not just because of the seat. Now I feel better since I couldn't afford one anyway.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:32 PM   #49828
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Originally Posted by sc-razor View Post
Me too. One of those new aluminum frame models would rock!
Yeah, with a sick seat and some comfy ergos, he'll yes! I would even go for a trick oil injection system and DI.

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Old 12-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #49829
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Originally Posted by Schultz! View Post
Might be a bit off base here but is something to think about.


One of the many jobs I have had was a "Vehicle Testing Tech" for ford motor company. While that title encompasses many things there I spent most of my time working with the "Vehicle Dynamics" groups. (they specialize in the tuning of the suspension systems) I learned a TON about damper control, spring check loads and rates, steering inputs, sway bar efforts, ect ect. The one thing I took from all of it it all truly depends on the calibration of the ass behind the wheel. Engineer X would claim the the "vehicle feels soft and unresponsive" Engineer Y would claim (same vehicle mind you with all the exact same components) the vehicle has robust handling characteristics with a sport ride quality...needless to say the asses were not calibrated to the same standard. With that being said person X setup may not please person Y even if there the same weight bike ect ect.

The springs basic job is to keep the vehicle "suspended" at the correct height vs static weight, its the dampers job to tell the spring how fast it can move. The best way to set up a bikes suspension (as i understand it) is to get the spring rates that are designated for your loaded weight I.E. rider gear big gas tank ect. Once that's done get the rear sag adjusted properly and make sure the forks are not too far compresses or expanded, set all damper clickers to "0" and take a test ride.


Depending on your observations during your ride you will get a idea how the suspension is responding, diving while braking, harsh on initial compression too easy to bottom ect ect. do this for several iterations of your damper adjustments available and make mental and recorded notes during the rides, this right here may be good enough for the old butt dyno, but if it isn't then proceed to plan for a damper re valve.


Re valving dampers realy isnt all that difficult just very time consuming to get it "just right". Ive seen way too many people jump all over the "gold valves" spending wads o cash and being disappointed with the out come because race techs calibrated ass is different from theirs. I would say for (speculating so please don't shoot me) most aplications the stock valves them self's are fine, its the shim stackup that truly effects how fast and how much oil flows past the piston ports causing the damping effect A cheep trick to try before a re valve is if the daper is "harsh feeling" (as in too much damping) to try and change the fluid to a lighter weight, same goes for the inverse if the damper feels"squishy or soft" changing to a higher weight oil can change the dampers performance. If changing the fluid type doesn't "fix" the conditions your seeing I highly recommend reading some tech articles on fork/shock valving/shimming before shelling out huge $$$, like i said it really isn't all that hard just a bit of a learning curve to it.
Good info here Schultz. I especially like your recommendation to change oil weights first. It's easy and relatively cheap. Going to a heavier oil raises and steepens the damping curve. Lighter drops and flattens it. As for after market valving bodies,, the theory behind them is (Race Tech's anyway) that the shim stack should do almost all of the damping. If the bodies end up providing any damping, you end up getting essentially an orifice type damping (ancient tech). Works okay with slow speed damping, horrible with high speed damping. Think about whacking the end of a syringe with your hand versus pushing it slowly.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:54 PM   #49830
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Originally Posted by my6 View Post
Google "Mercury Girl".....oh Yessssss
Have I got problems if I think about riding certain bikes as much as I do, say, the Mercury girl? Now that I've thought about it, I would rather ride the Mercury girl than any bike save for a 500cc GP bike.

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