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Old 12-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Uh-oh...the clutch indexing marks are all gone....now whaddya gonna do?

This from my 2001 GS REPROM;

Clutch to crankshaft hub, lightly oiled screws (new screws), 40Nm initial, 32 degrees rotation.

Housing cover to flywheel, 12Nm.

A little dab of moly fortified grease where the spring contacts the pressure plate and housing.

Keep us informed about the performance of the new clutch...that's quite a savings.

Did they perhaps also balance the whole assembly?
Should have been marked before cleanup.. too late now.
FYI I just did one with all new parts and they are no longer marking the parts. So maybe it no longer deemed to be that critical.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:37 AM   #32
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Not exactly sure of your terminology ..... 'housing cover' are the 2 pressure plates with the clutch in between?
The 40nm is for the 5 bolts that hold the housing cover (ring gear) to the crank - I doubt you removed that unless you were doing the rear engine seals.
If you tried that torque on the clutch bolts you would be
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:14 PM   #33
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The seals were fine so I left the flywheel attached.

OK, now for some serious questions. So I got the tranny back on and there's no resistance when I pull the clutch lever at the bars or when I activate it by the actuator arm on the tranny.

I'm sure (well sort of sure) I put the diaphragm and pushrod in the proper way.

Anything else it could be before I pull the tranny off again?

I bought the bike as a non runner because of the clutch so I've no idea if it was like this beofre.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #34
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The pushrod ends are different enough that there's likely no way you could install it backwards. The front has a longer narrow tip that tapers outward, and that taper is what contacts the corresponding tapered hole in the diaphram spring. The rear of the pushrod has a much shorter narrow end that engages inside the throwout bearing's inner race. I think installing it backwards would have the opposite effect of what you're experiencing (you'd probably never get the throwout bearing/lever assembly housing installed as the pushrod would be sticking too far aft).

If the diaphram spring being installed backwards would move the pushrod engagement hole forward of its normal location, then that's likely the problem. A pushrod that's a bit too short (the wrong one, made for a different model?) would do the same thing if the spring is installed correctly.

Maybe if you take off the throwout bearing/lever assembly housing and try to eyeball how far back the rear end of the pushrod extends in relation to where the throwout bearing sits when everything is assembled it'll give you an idea of where to go next.

Of course, this is all going off memories of my R1100RS cable-actuated clutch set-up many years ago and I might be all wrong.... Good luck Dan!
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:51 PM   #35
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Jdub,

does the pushrod lever install from the rear?

or can it be installed from the front of transmission after the cable lever, bearing, and rubber boot are installed in the rear?

I have a M97 sitting in the garage floor, I was trying to mock up parts to see what Dan is working with, I installed from the front, and there is about 1 inch of spring pressure before the pushrod, and clutch cable actuation lever are moving as one unit.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:07 PM   #36
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does the pushrod lever install from the rear?

or can it be installed from the front of transmission after the cable lever, bearing, and rubber boot are installed in the rear?
I assume you mean pushrod, because I'm not sure what the pushrod lever would be? Once the gearbox is bolted up then the pushrod can be inserted from the rear through the hollow gearbox input shaft and then the throwout bearing housing/actuating lever assembly/boot can all be installed.

I guess you could build all of that up first and then try to install the gearbox with the pushrod already in place inside the gearbox input shaft, but with a newly installed clutch and diaphram spring I'm not sure how perfectly the front end of the pushrod is going to align with the hole in the diaphram spring the first time you bolt everything together. Perhaps the front of the pushrod could be damaged doing it that way if the diaphram spring hole is off a bit?
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #37
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I gotcha.

so the pushrod is not installed in the trans when you install the trans over the clutch assemby, but later.

interesting.

Ok.

I just bought this gear box, I didnt remove it, obviously from the silly question.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #38
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Later??? Really??

I installed the pushrod first and then slid the tranny down along it .. same way the tranny was removed.

Always fun going inside the bike without a manual to read

The diaphragh has a nice smooth hole for the tapered end of the pushrod and the other side is rough and doesn't look like it should contact anything. I'm sure that's the way I assembled it. I don't see how a too short pushrod would get in there and if one end contacts the spring and the other the throwout bearing it must be the spring is in backwards.

Is there actual contact between the end of the pushrod and the actuator arm attached to the tranny or is part of the throwout bearing in between the two ... I'm wondering if part of the bearing is missing and hence no contact.
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Dan Alexander screwed with this post 12-07-2012 at 06:34 PM
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:49 PM   #39
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thats what I was playing with Dan.

with the tranny in the floor, pushrod installed from the front.

you have to push rearward on the pushrod with several lbs of pressure to make it and the cable lever move as one unit.

I am now wondering, if mine was removed via the front, as was yours, and that doesnt properly seat it all the way in the actuating apperatus in the rear.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:28 AM   #40
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Sir,

Maybe can you post a photo of your pushrod. Sometimes, the end at the clutch get shortened due wear, which might not be noticeable.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:46 AM   #41
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I don't have a pic of the pushrod ...yet.

Thanks for all the help guys but it's time to end the suspense and go exploring.

First I'm off to Tim Horton's for large double double

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Old 12-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by mouthfulloflake View Post
I am now wondering, if mine was removed via the front, as was yours, and that doesnt properly seat it all the way in the actuating apperatus in the rear.
That was also one of my thoughts, which I didn't convey well earlier. I thought by installing each part onto the bike in turn (gearbox onto the engine, then the pushrod through the rear, then the throwout bearing/actuating arm assembly) you'd have better visibility and control of each item to ensure they were going together properly. Just my $.02 worth......

I just noted on the Max BMW on-line parts fiche for the R1100GS this note under Clutch Control (ref item #2, P/N 23 13 1 464 167): This part replaces the older throwout bearing AND piston. The 167 is a combined/sealed unit. When installing this part on your older clutch rod, there's a bushing that is not needed and must be removed. Otherwise, replace the clutch rod at the same time as it made for the new 167 part. This was one of my thoughts earlier: If somehow the clutch pushrod Dan has is not the correct one (too short?) for the bike's current throwout bearing/piston assembly.



Sounds like Dan definitely noticed the difference in the sides of diaphram spring hole, so unlikely it's in backwards.
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jdub screwed with this post 12-08-2012 at 07:31 AM Reason: Added pic
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:58 AM   #43
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Well I just pulled everything apart and the spring was installed properly. Now I need to order 6 new bolts and washers

When I push on the pushrod installed in the tranny all seems well, there's a bit of resistance from the throwout spring and it works smoothly. The pushrod is fine, I know I looked at it before reinstalling and didn't have any doubts about it's integrity

So either the pushrod is too short or part of the throwout bearing is missing and it doean't make contact .... OR ..... my diaphragm spring is too worn out??? I did use the old one.

Time to put the tranny on the bench and remove that bearing.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:07 AM   #44
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Diaphragm spring...I would have replaced that one right off the bat after finding such a clutch. Yep had to redo one after being cheap and only replacing the friction disk on an old airhead GS with exactly the same clutch setup.

Heat degrades the spring tension. BMW used to give spring heights for reference on the older bikes, but they switched to a different diaphragm spring like yours with that big center washer thing now built right in....no more height specs, you'd need a newer one to compare.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:24 AM   #45
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Yeah, I admit it, I tried to be cheap.

Oh well, at least the labor is cheap

Not to have any resistance at all, even with the adjuster nut fully screwed in must mean that spring is waaaay flat. Is that even possible?
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