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Old 12-06-2012, 05:25 PM   #46
Dan Alexander
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[QUOTE=levain;20191669]Yeah, but those (like the Stadler suit(s), Halvarssons safety, BMG Adventure etc) are designed to integrate into one jacket. It's not really the same thing. QUOTE]

From the early posts abot the Klim Air it seems to be strictly an over jacket with no mechanical connection to the main jacket.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:04 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RTinNC View Post
OK .. so can I get the intro Super Saver price of $375 and add the $150 for custom sizing? So $525 for custom size super saver?
correct
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:34 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teizms View Post
Return policy for Super Saver offer:
No returns. One size exchange allowed - or upgrade to custom sizing. No exceptions.
I think that is perfectly fair, but I have a question. I don't know if I have girly arms or what. I like elbow armor snug, esp. with such small armor as SasTEc, I would want it adjusted so that it does not rotate, but few manufacturers allow this tight of an adjustment (yet another thing Rukka nails). That is a deal breaker for me. It would end up in the FM since it could not be returned. Can I get a measurement of the arm/elbow circumferance to get an idea of whether my girly arms will work in your jacket? Is there a jacket on the market that your fit is modeled after that I might be able to reference?

Thanks.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:52 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by levain View Post
I think that is perfectly fair, but I have a question. I don't know if I have girly arms or what. I like elbow armor snug, esp. with such small armor as SasTEc, I would want it adjusted so that it does not rotate, but few manufacturers allow this tight of an adjustment (yet another thing Rukka nails). That is a deal breaker for me. It would end up in the FM since it could not be returned. Can I get a measurement of the arm/elbow circumferance to get an idea of whether my girly arms will work in your jacket? Is there a jacket on the market that your fit is modeled after that I might be able to reference?

Thanks.
hey,
please feel free to email me your measurements of concern and i will look into this. support@teizms.com

The snaps work quite for holding the armor in place. if you need extemely snug arms, you may have to look into a custom size but as i said - email me and I will look into it.

the sizing was close to the Rev'it Dragon esp in the upper body.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:11 AM   #50
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One very important piece of advice - please take a look at the size chart before ordering and talk to us if u have confusion about the size. These sizes run a bit small and you may need a size larger than what you usually wear.. Also, just because you have a size "small" one-piece suit from Teiz, does not necessarily mean that a size Small jacket will work for you.. we would like to send you the right size the first time around..
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:54 PM   #51
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Any chance in putting up the photos of the other colors on your website? I'd like to see what the grey/blue/red looks like before I order.

Thanks
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:40 PM   #52
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:50 PM   #53
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the upper body and the color schemes are very similar to the Air Shell. so these pictures will give you a good idea.





le me know if these help
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #54
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I like to take my time making buying decisions, but it seems fair to say I'll place an order before the end of the month :).



(After looking at the custom color page at teizms.com)

Why do women always get better colors than men?!!

Anyway - could you help me understand which custom colors would be available for the Sahara, if any? The colors page (http://store.teizms.com/colors) contains a lot of pictures, some of which appear identical.

Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #55
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Thank you very much for answering my questions in detail. Much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teizms View Post
Q: Frogg Toggs (recommended model and feedback):
I bought two sets (for me and the wife) for $39 each from Academy in March 2011. Been through multiple 8-hour storms plus months of rugged non-stop use during several trips. Both suit are still in top-condition and never failed us.

I think they were on sale when bough them but I am sure you can pick up a complete suit for under $50. If I remember correctly they are the Pro Action series and more rugged/expensive/reflective options are available. Ours have worked out perfectly and seems like they have quite of a bit of life left in them. I would rate them 10/10 and wouldn’t mind getting another pair if I wreck these.

The feeling of arriving at your destination without worrying about how to deal with wet gear is priceless. We never have to wait for our gear to dry. I even use mine as a windbreaker. Heck I wore mine around London and Paris on rainy days so I don’t have to worry about carrying an umbrella. Another pro is that they pack really small in the provided bags and weigh next to nothing.
From a look at the froggtoggs website, the basic Pro Action set (jacket + pants) is $50. It's under "Work" or "Fishing". The "Motorcycle" section has other models, which indeed seem to mostly have more hi-viz, and stronger materials, but are also more expensive ($80-100 or so). Sounds like the basic $50 model has held up fine for you.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:27 PM   #56
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Thank you again. Some thoughts below but in essence I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teizms View Post
Got some interesting questions and am responding to them here:

Q: Opinion on the Companero, comparsion to the Gore-Tex liner they provide:

The Companero is a great jacket- but is it really worth that price? Stadler makes solid gear. I spent a lot of time examining it during Intermot.

In functionality, both the Companero & Sahara) have been designed for a similar purpose. The main difference is that the Companero includes the waterproof outer jacket while the Sahara does not and lets you choose your own rain suit.

Why don’t we include a rain suit with the Sahara? We have talked to several leading waterproofing brands. We could never come up with a waterproof jacket that would cost YOU less than the Frogg Toggs – despite the Frogg Toggs being just as waterproof. So with our version of the rain suit (like with the Gore-Tex suit) you pay more but don’t necessarily get better real-world performance.

Now – how expensive is it so replace the Gore-Tex layer of the Companero? Damage does not have to occur in a crash but rather normal usage such as an off-road ride with a lot of falls in harsh conditions. Being the less abrasion resistant layer, the rain suit will be much more easy to damage and rip-up. Frogg Toggs are $39 to replace and I couldn’t care less about how harshly I mistreat them (because they are easily replaceable). I wouldn’t treat my Gore-Tex suit the same way because I know it is going to cost an arm and a leg to replace. Also look into how much the Gore-Tex suits weighs and how does it pack. There are reports about the suit that raise these concerns.

One of the main differences between the two products is regarding abrasion resistance. Touratech (or Stadler) chose to protect the elbows and shoulders with additional layers of Cordura. The Sahara jacket has large panels of SuperFabric in the shoulders and elbows that are far more effective. Yet - the Sahara is far more affordable.

Apart from that, the two products are similar and are working to achieve the same functionality. I think the Companero also uses Sas-Tec armor (not sure), similar to the Sahara. Anyway, all the details about the jackets are on the web and you can compare the features and materials to determine how you want to spend your money. You asked for my personal opinion and here it is: The Gore-Tex liner on the Companero is not worth it and the jacket does not offer any unique features/materials that would convince me to spend so much more on it compared to the Sahara.
I am especially glad to hear that you consider the Sahara and Companero as "working to achieve the same functionality". This raises my hopes that I could have similar performance and functionality as the Companero (which I like, having seen it and tried it on in-store) at a price that I can afford - let's say $1000 for your jacket + pants + froggtoggs, rather than $2500 or so for the Companero (cheaper if purchased in Europe, but beyond me in any case).

It is also encouraging for me that you consider the Sahara no less in quality than the Companero, despite the huge price difference. This becomes more credible when we realize that
- when you buy the Companero, you sort of buy TWO full outfits, approximately (probably not quite) doubling the price;
- teiz is probably generally better value per dollar than Stadler/Touratech


The rainsuit : Part of the selling argument of the Companero is that you buy "3 suits" : 1. the mesh suit (equivalent to the Sahara) ; 2. the mesh suit + goretex shell (alternative to the Sahara + Froggtoggs) ; 3. and the goretex shell by itself. This last option, TT says, can be used for outdoor activities or around town. It is probably much better quality than Froggtoggs, and has some motorcycle features (cinch straps, waterproof pockets in outer jacket), but the question is, as you already said, whether it's worth the expense; and whether it's the right gear for you. E.g. I already own a nice goretex shell for hiking/walking around town that suits me better than the Companero goretex shell, partly because it isn't extra roomy to fit over motorcycle armor (thus providing better fit off-bike and taking up less space in the panniers) and doesn't have all the pockets etc. that look goofy around town.


Armor : Companero is indeed all Sas-Tec, including level-2 back protector - same as the Sahara. Thanks for pointing out the superfabric, where Sahara > Companero.


Bulk : from videos I've seen, the Companero goretex jacket itself fits in the back pocket fine, but when you add the goretex pants it does become a bit bulky. Froggtoggs or a standard (non-motorcycling) goretex shell is more compact, which matters to me.


I don't personally worry as much about how expensive it is to replace/repair damage, as I have very good insurance coverage, but it's still a good point.


Sounds like the Companero remains an attractive option for those with deep pockets, but the Sahara is a real alternative at a much, much better price.

kevinj screwed with this post 12-08-2012 at 06:32 PM
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:33 AM   #57
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Sounds like the Companero remains an attractive option for those with deep pockets, but the Sahara is a real alternative at a much, much better price.
That's it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:15 AM   #58
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I just don't get the comparison of this to something like the Stadler suit. The Sahara is no different than any other non waterproof jacket that you add a waterproof outer to. Why not add every other non waterproof jacket to the list comparing it to the Stadler suit?

What the Stadler suit offers is 100% integration between the two and a package deal. This, in itself is appealing to some, because some despise flapping in the wind (me). Something most bulky, clunky rain suits excel at Part of what you're buying is Goretex Proshell and lifetime warranty. The other part is world renowned tailoring and build quality, with a 10year manufacturer warranty. On top of that, the GoreTex outer is 500d cordura, so you get another highly abrasion resistant layer.

I'm not arguing for one or the other, I just think there is a fair amount of ignorance around what a suit like the Stadler is accomplishing and where it comes from. Touratech put their name on it, but it's a slightly modified EVO Concept, that Stadler has been making for awhile now. It's hardly equal to a non waterproof jacket that you throw an ill fitting cheapo waterproof jacket over. It's just not the same thing.

I might try out the Sahara, but not because its a worthy option to Stadler. They just aren't the same thing is all.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:30 AM   #59
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Yes, totally different except for the air circulation and protection which they are both good at..... and the price
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:58 PM   #60
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I just don't get the comparison of this to something like the Stadler suit. ....

I think a big part of it is how so we perceive things.

The point of view you have stated makes the "zip on waterproof suit" the major feature/selling-point/accomplishment of the Companero.

I agree that some riders may view the Companero/Concept with that eye.


My perspective is this - both are high-quality highly breathable jackets that suggest you wear the waterproof liner on the outside. The way i see it - this is the main feature of the jacket: breathable/perforated/mesh shell that is built from tough materials with top-of-the-line fabric/armor with comfort being an integral part of the design.

The Companero then also provides the waterproof suit which integrates with the base shell - that is worth an "extra amount" for sure. Now its up to each individual what they think is a justifiable "extra amount" for the integrated liner. Or if the integration is a must-have feature.

We chose not to provide the rain suit as we think there are some very good options available and feel that the "integration" feature is over-rated.

In my personal experience, the integration was never a issue. Most of my tours are two up and finding space for 2 Gore-Tex liners would be a pain. I left my cheap rain suits in the unlocked tank panniers because i was not worried about them getting stolen. We were never wet. So our design reflects this experience (with collaboration from a ton of feedback).

When we sat down to design this jacket - adding a reputable zip-on rain suit was not difficult to "accomplish"! we simply reached the conclusion that the added cost to the CONSUMER would be over-charging without over-delivering. But --- that is our perspective. I can understand if any body has a different view of the matter.

Also - the way i see it - most definitely not every jacket can be included in the comparison. Only jackets that provide a perforated shell made from "proven" materials (like Cordura, SuperFabric, Sas-Tec) can be included. You will find this list to be extremely small. Within that list - how many are designed for an outer rain suit instead of an internal liner? The already tiny list will be left with less than 3 or 4 names - with the Sahara and Companero being two of them.

Contrast this with our perspective on the Power Shell one-piece suit when compared to the Roadcrafter. Those two suits are not similar at all - heading in totally opposite direction with their design/tech choices. The RC has built-in waterproofing as an elemental feature whereas the Power Shell does not have waterproofing on the drawing board at all.
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