The All New 2013 LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by markjenn

A few of the newer non-single bikes with an emphasis on efficiency do use a single TB (the NC700X comes immediately to mind) but I think it is uncommon.

The S1000RR definitely has individual TB's, but I've never seen anything definitive about why they don't require any synchronization. It is definitely drive-by-wire, so each TB is controlled by a servo but I would still think there would need to be some calibration to make sure all the servos and position sensors are properly synchronized. It may be one of those things where BMW feels that once set at the factory, it should never go out of synchronization. I certainly know of many bikes that have servo TB's and still have conventional air bleed screws and require periodic synchronization by balancing manifold vacuum with the bleed screws. Short of having a MP sensor that measures vacuum in each inlet tract, I don't know of any way for the system to adjust itself based on running conditions.

- Mark

I read something about the new GS having something that measures vacuum and then makes adjustments constantly.

[Kenbike]

Originally Posted by Moronic

Difficult question for anybody but you to answer.

Money not a factor? No-one has ridden the 13, but the theoretical advantages have been canvassed thoroughly on this thread. A quick (and not exhaustive) summary:

- More power and torque.

- Engine design suggests smoother running.

- Wet multiplate clutch that should be more useful in slow going and will be much easier to replace.

- Electronic cruise control.

- Longer swingarm by 50mm.

- Redesigned final drive, with no spline to lube immediately behind hard-to-reach clutch.

- More sophisticated ABS and traction control.

- More room behind the cylinders for lower limbs/footing.

- LED running lamp and low beam (and optional high beam)

- Grippier tyre sizes for street carving.

- Revised weight distribution for same.

- Narrower waist around seat-tank junction.

- Better instrument panel.


For the 12:

- no water cooling circuit to worry about.

- no 'all-new' issues to worry about.

- $thousands less.

- Ready now.


Your call.

Very good list, I big factor is a Yamaha S10 is 13K, and I plan on $3500 in mods out of the box so it will be 16.5 and the value will drop pretty fast. 2012 BMW is 17K and the question is can I live with it mostly stock and add about 1K in mods? A 2013 set up the same will be 19.5K estimated and the aftermarket will not have a pile of items so could I might have to live with 1K in Mods. Reviewing used bike selling prices the BMW does not drop as fast as the S10 so in 5 years the diff in total cost may be very small. I was going with a 1200 gs in 2009 and picked up a 2 year old KTM 990 Adventure and it is a great bike, just find it is great off road and good on the road and my needs are great on the road and ok off road.

[Marki_GSA]

The current boxers don't require a sync on the idle circuit (idle servo) its only the mechanical cable part that you can adjust part throttle. I don't know if the new drive by wire uses a separate idle, main servo or if it's just one but however they do it now on the idle could be used on the new system.

[ragtoplvr]

Originally Posted by dmac57

There was mention of something along the lines of "automated decompressors" during startup. Can anyone point me to that? Going to have to float a valve for that to happen, and I hadn't seen that anywhere.

You can see a centrifugal decompression device on the exhaust cam in the upper right hand corner.

Rod

[ragtoplvr]

Originally Posted by twray

Seems unusual for one cylinder cam chain to run of the crankshaft and the other running of the counterbalance shaft. Seems some valve timing issues could result in gear wear from the counterbalance shaft and crankshaft relationship....

I suspect they wanted the slack side of the chain on the bottom. Look at some of the issues they had with the slack on the top with the oilheads. to do that one side must have reverse drive.

Rod

[cug]

Originally Posted by markjenn

Short of having a MP sensor that measures vacuum in each inlet tract, I don't know of any way for the system to adjust itself based on running conditions.

That reminds me of my Tiger 800: I hook up the laptop with diagnostic software and it tells me exactly how the TBs are out of sync, so it knows exactly what's wrong. It's NOT ride by wire though and and it doesn't have a computer controlled mechanism to adjust - so I have to manually adjust them. Would have been so much nicer to get ride by wire and have them automatically adjust via build in mechanism.

[Dorsicano]

New GS retail price in Germany (19% VAT included) has been quoted by a dealer to an inmate in another bmw forum as follows:
Base price with ABS €14,100 (plus delivery)
Comfort pack €650
Aktiv pack €890
Touring pack €1,490
Dynamic pack €2,100

I'm impressed. They did not go over the top.

[Hunter6]

In Holland €16950. €400 less then the 2012 GS

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by Marki_GSA

The current boxers don't require a sync on the idle circuit (idle servo) its only the mechanical cable part that you can adjust part throttle. I don't know if the new drive by wire uses a separate idle, main servo or if it's just one but however they do it now on the idle could be used on the new system.

Throttle sync is part of routine maintenance...every 6k on the boxer motors.

[marchyman]

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

Throttle sync is part of routine maintenance...every 6k on the boxer motors.

Of idle throttle sync. The idle balance can (and should) be checked, but if it is off by more than 25 mbar BMW says check for air leaks and make sure the valves are the same side-to-side. There is no other adjustment specific to idle balance. That's through '09 models... I assume the camheads are the same.

It wouldn't surprise me if the LC bikes are the same, less any off idle throttle cable adjustments.

[EJ_92606]

Originally Posted by marchyman

Of idle throttle sync. The idle balance can (and should) be checked, but if it is off by more than 25 mbar BMW says check for air leaks and make sure the valves are the same side-to-side. There is no other adjustment specific to idle balance. That's through '09 models... I assume the camheads are the same.

It wouldn't surprise me if the LC bikes are the same, less any off idle throttle cable adjustments.

I never said anything about idle balance, just the routine throttle synchronization on camhead and previous boxers. The new water boxer does not require this.

[Marki_GSA]

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

I never said anything about idle balance, just the routine throttle synchronization on camhead and previous boxers. The new water boxer does not require this.

I was using the current none udjustable idle sync as an example of how they currently know where the valves should be. I. E they can do it now so they can do it for the whole setup on the new engines. I already stated you can and need to adjust the off idle on the current models because it's mechanical.

[Montauk]

I am trying to track back to my question to BMW Rep from NJ for him to recommend me to go with Standard GS with low seat option. I had shown my 30" inseam limitation and need for a lowered suspension to him. With Standard, I barely got the bike off the stand and was tippie towing.

Someone here mentioned that Dynamic ESA is not available with Low suspension for the WC. I searched google and could not find the answer. I wanted to confirm this.

Called my local dealer, he said with current model ESA is not available with low suspension, but he could not confirm same holds true for the new water cooled GS.

Does anyone have any answer, or have talked to the BMW rep and gotten any answer whether Dynamic ESA is available with Low Suspension.

.... I wish I was 6 foot tall, and then I wouldn't have had these problems.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by 6USMC6

Jim -
Just looking at the above print, do you think it would be possible to pull the driveshaft out through the swingarm, grease the spline and then push it back in?

Or would you have to drop the swingarm?

It looks like it, but it depends on the diameter of the swingarm. I am guessing yes.

Jim

[Treadless]

Originally Posted by Montauk

I am trying to track back to my question to BMW Rep from NJ for him to recommend me to go with Standard GS with low seat option. I had shown my 30" inseam limitation and need for a lowered suspension to him. With Standard, I barely got the bike off the stand and was tippie towing.

Someone here mentioned that Dynamic ESA is not available with Low suspension for the WC. I searched google and could not find the answer. I wanted to confirm this.

Called my local dealer, he said with current model ESA is not available with low suspension, but he could not confirm same holds true for the new water cooled GS.

Does anyone have any answer, or have talked to the BMW rep and gotten any answer whether Dynamic ESA is available with Low Suspension.

.... I wish I was 6 foot tall, and then I wouldn't have had these problems.

Have you had the opportunity to mount the h2ohead? I found the seat and seating position much more accommodating to those of us that were short changed in the leg department. And the overall ergos fit me much better than my '05 even with the changes that I made to it. You may find that the bike may not need to be lowered.

Oh, and about your question, I have no idea about a lower ESA version.