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Old 12-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #46
Zane Neher
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I don't think it's am issue of turning schools into military compounds, but I can tell you at least 3 people that work at my local walmart carry a firearm. I don't think having armed guards at schools is the idea (though it would be a new job source) but to have teachers, principles or Counselors who have their CCW to carry, as well as any parent who may be on school grounds. No one even has to know they're armed.

If one of the teachers had a firearm on them and used it to prtect the students, they would have buried that teacher under the jail no matter how many lives that were saved by them. That's the issue.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:43 PM   #47
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Talk All you want

But at the end: We cant change the core of who we are and how this nation was established. 1st,2nd, 3rd and so on Amendments are the pillars of this Nation. Feelings aside we must be true to our founding Fathers and the Constitution which governs this Nation. I disagree on making any changes which will make us -as a nation- lose its identity.
I hope this "reform" doesn't TRANSFORM this country into something it never was.
Yes, too many inocents have died by the hands of lunatics, but far more have given their lives to protect this Nation and our Rights.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:44 PM   #48
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An External View?

Firstly;

I am an Australian.

'We' have gun control.

I am for gun control.

------------------------------------- Comment: don't shoot the messenger.

Summary: If you want something that will work, draw it up your self, DON'T LET the goberment do it for you!

I think you should think about what restrictions you would accept.

Round limitation?
Would a pig shooter need more than 5 shots rapid fire? Is the pig that far away?

Bore Limitation?
Do you want your neighbour to have a 105mm gun?

Licence to have a gun?

Sanity Check?
Should all gun owners have a mental checkup? How frequently?

Exclude convicted persons?

Guns storage;
under lock and key?
Separate amo and firing pin from gun storage?


---------------------

Think about what would be acceptable, and what could reduce the rate of gun deaths there. If you don't do it ... some ham fisted barstard will. May be not this year .. but eventually. Happened here.

We no longer live in the situation of the past. Times change. If you want to go back to your founding then give up the petrol engine and the repeating gun. The past is past.

Warin screwed with this post 12-18-2012 at 02:51 PM
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:13 PM   #49
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The sad truth is that this situation was caused by a mentally ill person who got his hands on some very destructive weapons and knew how to use them. He wasn't evil—that's too easy and solves nothing—and I'll bet you his parents weren't lazy or neglectful. I've met kids like him; my wife works with them. Many such kids have no ability to empathize, no way to control their anger. They just aren't capable of doing it. When they're little you put 'em in a hold and hang on until they calm down; at about 14 or 15 you can't do that anymore. My wife has told me of parents reporting that their kids say stuff like, "I will kill you" in a chilling, completely unaffected way. At the moment, they probably mean it.

These kids should not have access to weapons of any kind. To me that's the issue here. How that gets done is probably going to be very messy, but it needs to be done.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:02 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Flashdog View Post
Let's go after the real problem. The modern thug mentality that is now accepted by most. In law enforcement it's called the normalization of deviant behavior.

Children sit on they're butts all day watching the NBA and NFL thugs, watching Quentin Tarantino movies, playing the most violent video games, and have maybe one parent at home telling them that they are perfect. Have you ever compared the morons that do these shootings? Why do all seem alike? The parents aren't doing they're jobs, the teachers aren't allowed to, and law enforcement has it's hands tied by these monster's civil rights.

Yep
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
The sad truth is that this situation was caused by a mentally ill person who got his hands on some very destructive weapons and knew how to use them. He wasn't evil—that's too easy and solves nothing—and I'll bet you his parents weren't lazy or neglectful. I've met kids like him; my wife works with them. Many such kids have no ability to empathize, no way to control their anger. They just aren't capable of doing it. When they're little you put 'em in a hold and hang on until they calm down; at about 14 or 15 you can't do that anymore. My wife has told me of parents reporting that their kids say stuff like, "I will kill you" in a chilling, completely unaffected way. At the moment, they probably mean it.

These kids should not have access to weapons of any kind. To me that's the issue here. How that gets done is probably going to be very messy, but it needs to be done.
Apropos, got this from the basement:

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html

Read it, pals. It may be the only handle we get on the Mentality of this particular incident.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
Think about what would be acceptable, and what could reduce the rate of gun deaths there. If you don't do it ... some ham fisted barstard will. May be not this year .. but eventually. Happened here
Thanks for an Oz perspective, Warin. You've essentially nailed one of the major reasons i started this thread
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:38 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugwest View Post
Apropos, got this from the basement:

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.c...thinkable.html

Read it, pals. It may be the only handle we get on the Mentality of this particular incident.




Thanks for an Oz perspective, Warin. You've essentially nailed one of the major reasons i started this thread
Just finished reading it. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to be in that woman's situation. And I work with kids like that every single day. Being around them and dealing with them 7 hrs a day is challenging enough. I find myself wondering what these kids I work with are gonna do with their lives after finishing high school. Some of them are so socially maladjusted that I can't imagine what type of job they could hold down. And I promise you this---not a single one of them should ever lay hands on a firearm. I hope their parents realize that.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #53
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Deep, well written, and scary as fuck! My heart goes out to these warriors.
I agree that these kids should never lay hands on something with the capacity to do harm on a grand scale. Much like young squids should not jump on a Gixxer 1k and speed off into the sunset on crowded streets. Neither should the radicals on ANY front be judged as the norm. The fact of the matter is that you can not regulate people into eutopia. It will never happen.

Someone that means to do harm simply will do harm. The squid will mod his new Gixxer 600 to make crazy power, and the radical fringe will find other means of making their point... These truths are self evident.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzztail
You shoulda told me to do this a long time ago
My bad
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:05 PM   #54
Zane Neher
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Australia's violent crime went up after it's gun ban. How is that a step forward? I assume it's because you're murder rates went down? Gun ownership in the US is at it's all time high and is still rising. Our murder rate is going down. That in itself speaks entirely different than what the media, Brady bunch and your Political figures say.
Rumor has it, we are on par with Australia's murder rate, both that are indeed declining.

I don't see how believeing in our rights and fighting for our rights means we should ditch technological advances.

A couple old fellas may feel the same:

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:16 PM   #55
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from Mossad Ayoob http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...inst-monsters/
------
After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.

Some people see the logic in the Israeli approach.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:03 PM   #56
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from Mossad Ayoob http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...inst-monsters/
------
After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.

Some people see the logic in the Israeli approach.
_cy_, you've just concisely described the kind of country i do not want to live in.

Also, the realities of Israeli security vis-a-vis its history and its neighbors is not directly applicable to the scope of this thread.

Let's get back to what Sandy Hook/Newtown portends to evolving US gun control policy, please
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:19 AM   #57
Zane Neher
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A decent read.
http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/...-ill-tell-you/
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:25 AM   #58
Philip Kuntz
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_cy_, you've just concisely described the kind of country i do not want to live in.

Also, the realities of Israeli security vis-a-vis its history and its neighbors is not directly applicable to the scope of this thread.

Let's get back to what Sandy Hook/Newtown portends to evolving US gun control policy, please
This is where you and I disagree, Mug. This is the solution IMO. Is this headline not easier to digest?

"Gunman killed by teacher, 2 wounded"

The teachers and staff, and parents on school property have lost the right to bear arms while on school grounds. That is the root of the problem. You can't stop psychos from hurting people, but they can be dealt with much more efficiently if you have the means in your possession.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:36 AM   #59
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In short, no. When restrictions are proposed, these things fly off the shelves. Obama and Dems are the best gun sales team ever. We can barely find any ammo for our guns since he got re-elected. Americans are afraid, and are buying it all up.
But then again, what are the americans afraid of? I don´t get all this need for assault rifles and the like. Surely a gun/rifle locked up in the club they shoot in.

I´m some what biased in this, i´m from Denmark and we do not have any nature of protecting our self with loads of guns around the civillians. We have the policeforce for that kind of protection.

From an over-the-sea-point of view, NRA have way to much to say in this matter. Even not Obama can touch this. Impressive.

Not that this tragedy couldn´t happen in other parts of the world(Norway), but I think US have high score on this one and should act accordingly.

Regards
Mikael
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:37 AM   #60
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This just in...

TEACHER OPTS TO STAND HER GROUND AND KILLS THREATENING STUDENTS
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