So, I was wondering...

[Qwik]

I wish Top Tier Fuels were available in California

[ElRod]

Run it to 140 miles and still no low fuel light. Couldn't stand it, pulled in to fill up and check mileage......42.68 riding the bike as I usually do. I'm thrilled since I'd been only seeing + - 30 mpg.

[AdvGa]

Originally Posted by ElRod

......42.68 riding the bike as I usually do. I'm thrilled since I'd been only seeing + - 30 mpg.

Glad things have worked out well for you.

Can you summarize what you did to achieve the results you are getting now?

[ElRod]

Sure AdvGa.

The summary is this bike had been running worse and worse for some time along with the mpg dropping. Recently got TuneECU and the cable from CJ Designs to balance the TB’s and set TPS. That done it wouldn’t idle. Looked for a tuner in my area and nobody knows jack shit about KTM’s. Posted here in the OC and someone turned me on to Nels Byersdorf at 2 wheel dyno works in Washington.

After emails and a phone conversation to discuss my setup he had me send him my OEM map which he tweaked and sent back. Bike ran great, lost the off idle snatch and the hesitation at 4,500 rpm roll ons but it still wouldn’t idle. Removed the throttle bodies and found that mess pictured in the first post. In the process of cleaning all that up (especially the plugged MAP sensor ports) and traveling for my job, ordered and installed the CPR air filter to get rid of that OEM behemoth and make access to the TB’s much easier. Put it all back together, balanced the TB’s, set the TPS and have been very happy with the results.

I still think it may be lean on top with the addition of the CPR filter and will discuss with Nels, but short of monitoring the AFR to really nail it this the bike runs better than the day I bought it. I see an AFR monitor in my future. I’ve been looking, any suggestions?

In the end, if there is one, a good fuel map and getting rid of the ethanol induced contamination has made all the difference.

[AdvGa]

Thanks for your well stated reply of your fix(es).

Many Happy Miles & Smiles to ya!

[ElRod]

To try and battle this I bought a fuel tester here.

http://www.fueltestkit.com/index.html

Really nothing more than a graduated test tube and some water wouldn't do, but the kit is very handy. Went around my area and tested premiums from Exxon, Chevron, Shell, and Valero. All of these pumps had a shared hose and handle for regular, mid, and premium which means I had to run a gallon first to get a good premium sample. All had ethanol content from 8 to 10 percent. Most disturbing was that two samples had a cloudy appearance right out of the pump indicating early phase separation if I have that correct.

The good news is I found a station that sells pure gas 15 miles from where I work.

Would have hoped for 93 octane but I'll take it over the 10 percent.

BTW for whatever good it may do speak out here http://www.fueltestkit.com/fuel_choice_petition.html

[AdvGa]

Originally Posted by ElRod

... Went around my area and tested premiums from Exxon, Chevron, Shell, and Valero. All of these pumps had a shared hose and handle for regular, mid, and premium which means I had to run a gallon first to get a good premium sample.

All had ethanol content from 8 to 10 percent. Most disturbing was that two samples had a cloudy appearance right out of the pump indicating early phase separation if I have that correct.
BTW for whatever good it may do speak out here ...

Thanks for sharing your findings... I was hoping for less Ethanol in the High Test Fuel. Each State is different on how they manage the Fuel Stations usually by the Dept. Of Agriculture and the EPA.

At least you can get, fairly easily, some Fuel without Ethanol.

Keep in mind, the Cloudiness you mentioned in the Fuel, may Not be Ethanol but some Residues from the Fiberglass Fuel Tanks driven by the Solvent/Corrosive affects from Ethanol .

So with this info, it is best for sure to get Fuel from busy Gas Stations that have better Fuel Turnover to keep from getting aged Fuel and its risks associated with it.

[ElRod]

One other thing I did on the advice of an engineer pal of mine (he rides a BMW but I'll let that slide) was to add a tap to the tanks crossover / equalization hose to be able to drain off a small amount of fuel from the bottom of the tanks where water would accumulate. Great idea whenever I have to use E10 again, especially if the bike sits for any length of time I can simply drop the skid plate and drain as needed.

Got the brass tee and the valve from McMaster Carr and installed it this evening. I had some spring hose clamps leftover from doing the canisterectomy / SAS removal and thought they were the size needed but are too small and had to use the zip ties for now. I'll get some clamps the right size ASAP.

To make access quick and easy I had to make the quick disconnects myself as the ones offered by KTM Twins would have been too short to use with the Weld 86 skid plate I have. Got the idea here.....
http://www.ktmtwins.com/ktm-950-990-...disconnect-kit

[HeatXfer]

ElRod

Brilliant, thank you.

[ciedema]

I hate running E10 - in Aus straight fuel is available almost everywhere. Riding around the US it is as rare as hens teeth.

[grinns]

This is exactly what happened to mine too. Make sure you clean in the intakes really well because it will cover the map holes completely too.

[ElRod]

Originally Posted by grinns

This is exactly what happened to mine too. Make sure you clean in the intakes really well because it will cover the map holes completely too.

Of course I'm biased now after all that but for anyone that has a poorly running bike with shitty fuel mileage these are the first thing I'd look at. Cleaning these WILL become part of my regular maintenance. Should be in the manual.

[HeatXfer]

ElRod

I talked to a retired friend of mine who was a chemical engineer for Dow (an avid MXr who used to ride with Dick Mann back in the day). I asked him about E10 and showed him the pics of your throttle bodies; he said that ethanol is a solvent and by itself wouldn't leave those deposits. He said that crap looks like old gas varnish from the fuel system (tank, gas lines & fuel pump) that was dissolved by the ethanol and got deposited on the butterflies where it accumulated and hardened.

I asked about the corrosive effects on aluminum engine parts and damaging the brass injectors, he said aluminum would be affected if it came in direct contact with ethanol, but at the 10% to possible 15% found in gas it would be negligible. He said it would have an even lesser affect on brass. He said it will eventually dissolve most if not all rubber gaskets, and it will dissolve the resins in fiberglass and epoxy.

I know ethanol BTUs are lower than gasoline, so performance is definitely an issue, but after talking to him I get the feeling that understanding how to cope with ethanol is the answer. He said ethanol additives simply bond to the ethanol molecules to help mitigate water absorption, so that is a line of defense, but he said that might adversely affect fuel economy too.

I don't think we're going back to ethanol-free gas anytime soon (in Calif). I still think your fuel cross-over drain is good idea, especially for ADV riders who attempt water crossings. Although he and I both agree utilizing food grains to produce fuel is probably not in the public's best interest (but a money maker for someone).

Anyway, my 2¢

[ElRod]

Originally Posted by HeatXfer

ElRod

I talked to a retired friend of mine who was a chemical engineer for Dow (an avid MXr who used to ride with Dick Mann back in the day). I asked him about E10 and showed him the pics of your throttle bodies; he said that ethanol is a solvent and by itself wouldn't leave those deposits. He said that crap looks like old gas varnish from the fuel system (tank, gas lines & fuel pump) that was dissolved by the ethanol and got deposited on the butterflies where it accumulated and hardened.

I have to agree with that to some extent. After I got all that cleaned up I went into a local independent cycle shop here that I get my supplies from for a can of chain lube and started talking to an older gentleman there. One thing led to another and I told the story and showed him those photos. Immediately he says it's not the ethanol leaving the deposits but rather the emulsification being made by the fuel conditioner used. I had been using Lucas Ethanol Fuel Treatment at the time. Regardless, it's still a problem one way or another.

Thanks for that input, it goes to give credit to his thoughts.

[MCCOYBOY]

Originally Posted by geometrician

KTM North America invested in a sweet injector tester system. Your dealer can send in your injectors for cleaning/testing & provide you pricing (shipping, etc)

it has a fuel rail with back-lit clear precision-graduated columns that allow you to both observe the spray patterns and the exact amount sprayed over time (useful for matching on multi-cylinder bikes) and uses different parameters/pulse durations to see if any have a "weak" spot of operation.

It's a pretty neat piece of kit, we checked it out at KTM Tech class. It's pretty damn expensive

I bought one of these http://www.launchtechusa.com/assets/...s/xsonicbt.pdf

Works like a charm.