ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-14-2012, 05:18 PM   #226
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ignatz72 View Post

I was hoping you knew this one craydds! I thought you had an SM-1
Seems to me one would connect (pigtail) the black/white (power to the instrument cluster light) with the green/yellow (power to the turn signal switch). I did not connect my black/white because I have an Acewell (no stock instrument cluster). So, if you have an SM-1, connect the black/white to the green/yellow at the common terminal on the SM-1, it should work. (if blue smoke is emitted, disavow this message)
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:30 AM   #227
Stan_R80/7
Beastly Gnarly
 
Stan_R80/7's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: VA
Oddometer: 1,277
I don't think hooking the black/white (indicator bulb) wire to the green/yellow (power to the turn switch) will do the trick. Hooking up the switch to the bulb will light the indicator bulb when the switch is pressed - but the bulb will not flash with the turn lights. I have been lurking and reading the installation instructions for the SM-1 for some time, and the instrument indicator bulb needs to be driven from the flasher relay. This may be a question for the Kasan tech folks.

However, your description and pics helped explain all the other SM-1 connections for my old airhead. Thanks!
Stan_R80/7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 08:03 AM   #228
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 7,301
Quote:
But Bill, I think white bulbs will be fine, although I do love how rich the amber light is in my front signals. Without a luminosity/color gauge to quantify, I think it's mostly academic though.

Hell, clear incandescents worked fine until some idiot started a thread about LEDs!
Here is the problem. The light from the White LEDs is not the same as the white light from an incandescent. An LED-- whether it be yellow, red, or green-- puts put almost pure light of that color. Look at them as sloppy lasers. A White LED uses smoke and mirrors. It puts out Red, Green and Blue light and mixes in specific proportions to create light that is perceived as white to the eyes.

--Bill
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Luddite. Not just a philosophy, a way of life...
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #229
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
the instrument indicator bulb needs to be driven from the flasher relay. This may be a question for the Kasan tech folks.
Yes, give Andy a call.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 10:42 AM   #230
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
the instrument indicator bulb needs to be driven from the flasher relay
The green/yellow from the flasher relay makes the turn signals flash, it is the power to the signal bulbs, routed to left or right by the turn signal switch; think of the green/yellow as on-off-on-off power or "flashing". On the Hella relay there is a connection for the green/yellow and another for the black/white; they both send the "flashing" power. The black/white wire goes directly to the turn signal inicator bulb (instrument cluster). The SM-1 only has one "flashing" power out-put connection (discounting the running lights/brake flashing connections) for the turn signals to which one connects the green/yellow. This same connection should also power the indicator bulb causing it to flash with the turn signals. One could do a simple test - connect the black/white to the green/yellow at the SM-1 terminal and give it a try.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S

craydds screwed with this post 12-15-2012 at 02:03 PM
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 11:09 AM   #231
Stan_R80/7
Beastly Gnarly
 
Stan_R80/7's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: VA
Oddometer: 1,277
Ok, thanks for the additional clarification. I get it now. The Hella turn signal relay has a turn signal indicator bulb connection for fast flashing when a turn signal bulb is burnt out. Connecting the black/white to the green/yellow should make the indicator bulb operate normally.

I was reading the instructions about momentary switches, then misread the wiring diagram and got confused. On an airhead, the turn signal switch must be kept in place for however long the flasher is flashing. I don't think it makes any difference if an LED is used in place of the standard indicator bulb.

Edit: well... maybe not, based on the expanded explanation below.

Stan_R80/7 screwed with this post 12-15-2012 at 01:58 PM Reason: Changed the post
Stan_R80/7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:17 PM   #232
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
Ok. To clarify, I do not have the SM-1 relay. I just want to understand how it works before converting all the (working) turn signals and running lights.

My understanding is that the SM-1 relay - acts like a relay (i.e. an electrically powered switch). In that there is power from the green/black wire and brown to energize the relay, then the green/yellow (from the switch) wire activates the relay (i.e. throws the switch). The black/white wire gets its original signal from the Hella turn signal relay - which makes me think the SM-1 relay also must put out a signal to the dash bulb.

But, I don't know. I can only guess about what makes sense per the standard wiring diagram, this post, and the instructions. Hooking the black/white wire directly to the green/yellow (switch) wire bypasses the SM-1 relay (and original Hella relay) based on the /7 or /6 wiring diagram.
If you have a different model signalMider (not an SM-1) you will need to call Andy at Kisan. Your understanding of the SM-1 function is basically correct, but think about it this way - green/black is positive power to the relay, brown is ground, green/yellow is positive power output FROM the relay to the bulbs. If you connected the green/yellow directly to a bulb and grounded the bulb (closed the circuit), the bulb would flash. This is the function of the turn signal switch, it closes (or completes) the circuit to the bulb, it sends the power from the green/yellow to the bulb. When the SM-1 "senses" the closed circuit it sends the "flashing" power out to the green yellow wire. Clear as mud? Study your wiring diagram so you understand the turn signal circuits. Now to the black/white wire - if you connected the black/white to the SM-1 power OUT-PUT terminal (the green/yellow terminal) then it would cause the signal indicator bulb to flash; but this is the problem, there is no way to turn it off, it would always be flashing, because it is always a closed circuit. So, I see your point. Tying the black/white to the green/yellow will not work. Here is a way around the turn signal relay - if you connected the black/white to a turn signal wire (blue/red or blue/black) the indicator bulb would flash with the signal bulb. So, from the circuit board in the headlight bucket, run wires with a diode inline from the blue/red and from the blue/ black, and tie both of them to the black/white. Clear as mud? If you connected the black/white only to one side (blue/red) then the indicator would only flash when that one side was flashing. If you connect a blue/red and a blue/black to the black/white WITHOUT diodes inline then the both right and left turn signals would flash at the same time. Can I make it any more confusing?
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S

craydds screwed with this post 12-15-2012 at 12:30 PM
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:28 PM   #233
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Here is another way to think about bypassing the relay for the turn indicator bulb. I have an Acewell with separate indicator bulbs for right and left turn. I connected wires directly from the blue/red to the Acewell left indicator and from the blue/black directly to the right. You could wire up separate indicator bulbs to flash with the right and left turn. Or, you can dispense with the flash indicator bulb, do not connect the black/white wire, simply do without as it is not necessary for function.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #234
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
diodes

You can connect two wires - one from the blue/red and one from the blue/black - to the black/white indicator wire. Only one of the wires - like, the wire from the blue/red - would have to have a diode in-line; this will prevent the flow of current from the blue/black side to the blue /red side. I think, just to be safe, I would put a diode in each line. Now your indicator bulb will flash when the right or left turn signals flashes. Many things are so simple, but, with extra effort, we can make them very complex.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:42 PM   #235
Stan_R80/7
Beastly Gnarly
 
Stan_R80/7's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: VA
Oddometer: 1,277
Yes, I see what you are saying. I think having leads from the black/white wire spliced into the turn signal wires with a diode on each side (allowing current to the indicator bulb) is a fix. I don't want to remove the indicator - the bike is too old to trust the electrical system without an indicator. But,I think there may still be some indicator light glow as mentioned in the instructions when using diodes. This is a bit of a head scratcher and one of the reasons I wanted to understand a bit about what the relay does.

Another option is adding two relays (one for each side) that energize the indicator bulb when each side flashes. That may stop the indicator light glow described in the instructions by isolating the left and right flasher wiring. Other than finding room for the relays, they aren't expensive or difficult to wire.

Ok. I need more time to think of a more complex solution. Damn, I thought this might be simple. I thought the relay may operate on a change in the resistance, instead of current flow. But, the simpler approach of starting a timer when current flows is better. Simpler is always better.
Stan_R80/7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:56 PM   #236
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
Damn, I thought this might be simple.
The signalMinder is pretty cool, gives you running lights and flashing brake lights, too. It is worth all the effort. Call Andy at Kisan - he may have dealt with this and have a SIMPLE solution.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #237
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
I need more time to think of a more complex solution.
Let me know if you need any help. Together, we could work out the most complicated scheme possible.
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:27 AM   #238
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 7,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Here is the problem. The light from the White LEDs is not the same as the white light from an incandescent. An LED-- whether it be yellow, red, or green-- puts put almost pure light of that color. Look at them as sloppy lasers. A White LED uses smoke and mirrors. It puts out Red, Green and Blue light and mixes in specific proportions to create light that is perceived as white to the eyes.

--Bill
I did some testing and determined that once the blue component of a white LED was filtered out with a amber (yellow) lens, the brighter white light was reduced ot the intensity of an amber LED.

So I got a pair of Custom Dynamics Amber LED clusters to replace the 1157 bulbs in the front turn signals.

http://www.customdynamics.com/motorcycle_led_bulbs.htm

Those suckas are BRIGHT! I did a temporary hookup to 12v and looking at the cluster for a moment left purple spots in front of my eyes for a couple of minutes.

--Bill
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Luddite. Not just a philosophy, a way of life...
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 08:16 AM   #239
craydds
Beastly Adventurer
 
craydds's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Oddometer: 1,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
So I got a pair of Custom Dynamics Amber LED clusters to replace the 1157 bulbs in the front turn signals. http://www.customdynamics.com/motorcycle_led_bulbs.htm
Those suckas are BRIGHT! I did a temporary hookup to 12v and looking at the cluster for a moment left purple spots in front of my eyes for a couple of minutes.
--Bill
Me likie! Do you think they are brighter than the superbrightled's brand? Is there an objective brightness measurement for comparison?
__________________
ABC #12947
'75 R90S
craydds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 11:42 AM   #240
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 7,301
They are different lamps and there isn't a direct comparison, IMO. The Genesis clusters are flat arrays of many 5mm (T5) LEDs and many of the SB_LEDs are bulb replacements using LEDs in a surface-mount package (fewer LEDs of higher individual output). The Genesis are available with a bulb-base, but with their larger size they can't always directly replace the bulbs.

I went with the 1.8" dia flat array because the turn signals in the Hannigan were sorta factory-adapted from existing UJM turnsignal lenses without reflectors. I tried to adapt a UJM w/reflector but without a reflector to direct and focus the light from the filament a lot is lost and the results were so-so. In an LED the package focuses and directs the light output and with 48 high-output LEDs it's bright. I got the Genesis array with wires (no base) and I hardwired them into the fairing.

THey work well and the SB_LEDs work as well, just different details.

I'll do photos and all and put comments in my "Hannigan Lighting" thread later on. Meanwhile, on a rainy Christmas day, I'm kicking back and chilling...

--Bill
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Luddite. Not just a philosophy, a way of life...
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014