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Old 12-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #16
adam71
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Location: Alameda, CA
Oddometer: 41
Thumb Another brand of battery suggestion

Good luck troubleshooting the issue!

I replaced my battery about a year ago with a Braile B14115, and have been very pleased. 360 cold cranking amps. See the link below for further details and the best pricing I've found:

http://www.burnsmoto.com/braille-battery-b14115.php

(I am not affiliated, just a happy customer)
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #17
vintagerider
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[could be suffering from a psychotic breakdown]
best reply!
[I am religious about the tender which Odyssey says is actually very hard on their battery type. Causing sulfation. So the desulfate experiment is in progress.]

EDIT: Noco maintainer a candidate:
sale price $35 http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-products/g1100.html
Length 6
Width 2.5
Height 1.5
Weight 1.10
Shipping Weight (lb.) 2
DC Output Amps 1100 mA
Maximum Charging Current 1.1 A
DC Output Voltage 6 & 12 V
Output Voltage Charging 14.7 V
Output Voltage Maintenance 13.6 V
DC Output Voltage (Full Load) approx. 13.2 V
Output Voltage Tolerance (No Load) .25 V
AC Input Amps .6 A
Maximum AC Current @ 90 VAC .6 A
AC Input Volts 120 V
AC Input Volts Freq. 60 Hz
AC Input Volts Range 85-130 VAC
Float Current .77 A
Float Voltage 13.6 V
Power Requirements 30 W
Maximum Power Output, Continuous 16 W
Charge Reset: Battery Voltage Threshold 12.8 V
Working Temperature 10 ° to 40 °C
Storage Temperature -10 ° to 70 °C
Ripple and Noise 150 mV, < 50 db
Enclosure Plastic
Output Banks 1
Withstand Voltage 2000 VAC
Temperature Compensation Yes
Recommended Use 6 and 12 volt Lead Acid Batteries 2.2 AH - 40 AH
Regulatory Approval ETL Listed
Manufacturer: NOCO
Made In: China
I have diddled around with smart chargers for a while now. No body wants to spend more than they have to. Desireable features:
- energy efficient, switches to very low power drain mode durring maintaintenace mode
- auto restart if power fails
- water proof
- accepts 70-220 vac 48-62 Hz input (works with generator )
- won't heat battery
- has batery temp probe
- de-sulfation mode
- analyzes and gives fb
- employs pulsed charging technolog
- manufacturer stands behind product 5 yr , 3 yr, 2 yr

Odyssey's most basic model is the Ultimizer OMAX-6A-1B 6 amp charger which has no desulfation. http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html 5 year free replacement warranty.

Battery Minder is the tech leader in de-fulfation technology but only certain models are approved for Odyssey. Quite a few folks swear by Battery MINDer 12 Volt 1.5 Amp On-board Charger Maintainer #BM12151 but not approved by Odyssey.
BatteryMINDer Battery Charger / Maintainer with Desulphator — 12 Volt 2/4/8 Amp, Model# 12248 has a temperature probe which is the sign of a sho quality device. There is a version just for Odyssey. Universal model here: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6706_200326706


Battery Doctor has Odyssey approval albeit under a different brand label. I have this one. It works great, has equalization, auto re-start and de-sulfation. I have gotten my pc680 to hold 15.1 volts at 70F. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UNzU1G_mMeN
see also: http://www.wirthco.com/battery-docto...7_95-l-en.html

------
The Odyssey tech manual pdf: http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
(opens directly with Chrome, otherwise download)
seems to say different things at differnet times. It does lay out a precise procedure to discharge and re-charge to evaluate the battery condition and to attempt to resore it. I have to admit that I do not understand how or why Odyssey is apparently better off completely disconnected than left on a sub-par float voltage ( less than 13.6 vdc).
----
Battery Charger Articles
http://batteryminders.com/prints/avi...-in-a-walk.pdf
battery chargers, a boaters perspective (reviews a Sterling now available from West Marine under pvt lable): http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...attery_charger
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6706_200326706

------
The Odyssey tech manual pdf: http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
(opens directly with Chrome, otherwise download)
seems to say different things at differnet times. It does lay out a precise procedure to discharge and re-charge to evaluate the battery condition and to attempt to resore it. I have to admit that I do not understand how or why Odyssey is apparently better off completely disconected than left on a sub-par float voltage ( less than 13.6 vdc).
----
Battery Charger Articles
http://batteryminders.com/prints/avi...-in-a-walk.pdf
battery chargers, a boaters perspective (reviews a brand now available from West Marine): http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...attery_charger

highly programmable charger, ideal for folks with off grid and battery back up needs: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...5#.UNze6m_mMeM
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vintagerider screwed with this post 12-27-2012 at 08:07 PM
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:07 PM   #18
lhendrik
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Location: New York and Floridoodie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagerider View Post
[could be suffering from a psychotic breakdown]
best reply!
[I am religious about the tender which Odyssey says is actually very hard on their battery type. Causing sulfation. So the desulfate experiment is in progress.]
I have diddled around with smart chargers for a while now. No body wants to spend more than they have to. Desireable features:
- energy efficient, switches to very low power drain mode durring maintaintenace mode
- auto restart if power fails
- water proof
- accepts 70-220 vac 48-62 Hz input (works with generator )
- won't heat battery
- has batery temp probe
- de-sulfation mode
- analyzes and gives fb
- employs pulsed charging technolog
- manufacturer stands behind product 5 yr , 3 yr, 2 yr

Odyssey's most basic model is the Ultimizer OMAX-6A-1B 6 amp charger which has no desulfation. http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html 5 year free replacement warranty.

Battery Minder is the tech leader in de-fulfation technology but only certain models are approved for Odyssey. Quite a few folks swear by Battery MINDer 12 Volt 1.5 Amp On-board Charger Maintainer #BM12151 but not approved by Odyssey.
BatteryMINDer Battery Charger / Maintainer with Desulphator — 12 Volt 2/4/8 Amp, Model# 12248 has a temperature probe which is the sign of a sho quality device. There is a version just for Odyssey. Universal model here: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6706_200326706


Battery Doctor has Odyssey approval albeit under a different brand label. I have this one. It works great, has equalization, auto re-start and de-sulfation. I have gotten my pc680 to hold 15.1 volts at 70F. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.UNzU1G_mMeN
see also: http://www.wirthco.com/battery-docto...7_95-l-en.html
------
The Odyssey tech manual pdf: http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
(opens directly with Chrome, otherwise download)
seems to say different things at differnet times. It does lay out a precise procedure to discharge and re-charge to evaluate the battery condition and to attempt to resore it. I have to admit that I do not understand how or why Odyssey is apparently better off completely disconected than left on a sub-par float voltage ( less than 13.6 vdc).
----
Battery Charger Articles
http://batteryminders.com/prints/avi...-in-a-walk.pdf
battery chargers, a boaters perspective (reviews a Sterling now available from West Marine under pvt lable): http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...attery_charger
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6706_200326706

------
The Odyssey tech manual pdf: http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf
(opens directly with Chrome, otherwise download)
seems to say different things at differnet times. It does lay out a precise procedure to discharge and re-charge to evaluate the battery condition and to attempt to resore it. I have to admit that I do not understand how or why Odyssey is apparently better off completely disconected than left on a sub-par float voltage ( less than 13.6 vdc).
----
Battery Charger Articles
http://batteryminders.com/prints/avi...-in-a-walk.pdf
battery chargers, a boaters perspective (reviews a brand now available from West Marine): http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...attery_charger

highly programmable charger, ideal for folks with off grid and battery back up needs: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...5#.UNze6m_mMeM
^^^ Best documented reply !
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #19
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhendrik View Post
^^^ Best documented reply !
He types really really fast!

Jim
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #20
Plane Dr OP
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Open request to anyone actually measure key off parasitic draw! I have lots of "it went months" but no one seems to have actually measured anything! Lets add to the collective.

Please add model year for comparison.

One of the things quite clear in my research is that amp hours are NOT the be all and end all. Different batteries have different reactions to low load draw. Many actually exceed the rated draw. Then the reserve ability kicks in, oh, and the actual bike starter draw!

I have done a carb balance changed to lighter weight oil and have the noted issues at 28f. Being an Engineer give me DATA!
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane Dr View Post

Open request to anyone actually measure key off parasitic draw! I have lots of "it went months" but no one seems to have actually measured anything! Lets add to the collective.

Please add model year for comparison.
If I remember, my '02 1150 was about 7mA (.007A) key-off current draw.

A 1200 I measured was a little more, but there is a caveat to measuring the key-off draw. The accessory power port on the rear subframe of the 1200 remains energized for some amount of time after the ignition key is switched off. When the accessory power port is energized the key-off current draw is much higher.



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Old 12-29-2012, 06:27 AM   #22
Plane Dr OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
If I remember, my '02 1150 was about 7mA (.007A) key-off current draw.

A 1200 I measured was a little more, but there is a caveat to measuring the key-off draw. The accessory power port on the rear subframe of the 1200 remains energized for some amount of time after the ignition key is switched off. When the accessory power port is energized the key-off current draw is much higher.


Good point I waited till the processor cycled once but not necesarily long enough for the socket to shut down. Back to the garage....
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:06 AM   #23
Emoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane Dr View Post
Open request to anyone actually measure key off parasitic draw! I have lots of "it went months" but no one seems to have actually measured anything! Lets add to the collective.

Please add model year for comparison.

One of the things quite clear in my research is that amp hours are NOT the be all and end all. Different batteries have different reactions to low load draw. Many actually exceed the rated draw. Then the reserve ability kicks in, oh, and the actual bike starter draw!

I have done a carb balance changed to lighter weight oil and have the noted issues at 28f. Being an Engineer give me DATA!
2005 model, taken from perhaps the first batch, released to me in April of 2004.

Post in this thread, which you might find interesting: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238232
Ok, using this meter http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search I made some measurements with the circuit to the battery broken, and the meter in between closing the circuit. Digital meters are hard to read for ranges, but I tried to notice the high and low.

The bike itself (1st release 2005 R1200GS) with no accessories:

5.1 - 6.7 mA.

The accessory loop, broken down into components:

Just the fog and driving lights: 0.00 mA
Chatterbox GMRSX-1, connected, but turned off: 130 mA
MixIt2 amplifier, connected, but turned off: 13.56 mA

So, if you start to add all that up, it makes for a serious draw.

Clearly, I MUST disconnect the Chatterbox and MixIt2 amp when the bike is going to be parked. I would not have guessed that turning them off was insufficient, but the meter doesn't lie. Silly me.

So, if I leave the accessories disconnected except when using them (which is very easy to do) my lowest draw will be 5.1 to 6.7 mA. That seems about normal, does it not?
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane Dr View Post
Good point I waited till the processor cycled once but not necesarily long enough for the socket to shut down. Back to the garage....
You should read less than .008A (8mA) after a period of time.
If not:
I have a friend with a 2005 that had the same problem. It turned out to be a problem with the software. The bike was updated by the dealer and the issue resolved. Apparently there were a lot of early 05's that had that problem.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:38 PM   #25
Plane Dr OP
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Thanks everyone! Nice to have actual testing of other bikes.

So I spent the day mucking about. The Odyssey after a deep discharge (possibly too deep) it now tests 265 cca vs 230 cca a couple days ago. It also holds a solid 12.8 volts. The process was to draw down to 10.5-11 volts then recharge at 10+ amps, then trickle charge at 1.5-2 amps for 6-8 hours. I had wired my LED spot to it and it sucked way low. So it got a 2 stage (3.5-4 hour total) 10 amp charge then the trickle.

The starter post was 8 years old. So cleaned and retorqued. It was okay for corrosion and wasn't loose but wasn't clean and tight.

The centech AP2 was "leaking" on the switched side of the circuit. It was always 6 ish volts. i only noticed as the Piaa switch LED was still on after the circuit was supposed to be off. I Disassembled and cleaned it, essentially just brushing it down with a dry toothbrush and paintbrush.

End result 6-7 milliamperes for the main system, 13-14 for the centech circuit. 6 milliamperes of which go to the new voltmeter and clock. 6-7 into the ether, relays, hard wired transformers etc.

Ill see what happens. It spins up faster than it has anytime since I bought it. Ill see if the battery holds. But I am around 1/3 the previous draw. So this should get me 7-10 days and still start. It sits that long only if I am traveling for work so it should be good. I may see what the dealer costs to verify the software rev level. Mine is a 2004 build and is a 2004 based on all the details, 2005 though on the data plate.

Hopefully some good data here for someone else in the future.
__________________
01/09 DRZ470SSW more bits than necesary
2005 R1200 GS AKA The Mothership
2003 Z1000 Nuclear Pumpkin (gone)
86 RG500WW (gone)

Bikes are like women. What you think you want, and what you want, change after the first ride.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane Dr View Post
Thanks everyone! Nice to have actual testing of other bikes.

So I spent the day mucking about. The Odyssey after a deep discharge (possibly too deep) it now tests 265 cca vs 230 cca a couple days ago. It also holds a solid 12.8 volts. The process was to draw down to 10.5-11 volts then recharge at 10+ amps, then trickle charge at 1.5-2 amps for 6-8 hours. I had wired my LED spot to it and it sucked way low. So it got a 2 stage (3.5-4 hour total) 10 amp charge then the trickle.

The starter post was 8 years old. So cleaned and retorqued. It was okay for corrosion and wasn't loose but wasn't clean and tight.

The centech AP2 was "leaking" on the switched side of the circuit. It was always 6 ish volts. i only noticed as the Piaa switch LED was still on after the circuit was supposed to be off. I Disassembled and cleaned it, essentially just brushing it down with a dry toothbrush and paintbrush.

End result 6-7 milliamperes for the main system, 13-14 for the centech circuit. 6 milliamperes of which go to the new voltmeter and clock. 6-7 into the ether, relays, hard wired transformers etc.

Ill see what happens. It spins up faster than it has anytime since I bought it. Ill see if the battery holds. But I am around 1/3 the previous draw. So this should get me 7-10 days and still start. It sits that long only if I am traveling for work so it should be good. I may see what the dealer costs to verify the software rev level. Mine is a 2004 build and is a 2004 based on all the details, 2005 though on the data plate.

Hopefully some good data here for someone else in the future.
Great to hear your progress.

If you really want to bring the battery to full capacity you can do the following:
(you will need an 18v current limited power supply)

Out of the Odyssey manual:

1. Bring the battery to room temperature—25°C (77°F)—if it
is not already there.
2. Measure the open circuit voltage (OCV). Continue to step
3 if it measures at least 6.00V.
3. Charge the battery for 24 hours using a constant current
charge that is 5% of the 20-hour capacity of the battery
(5A for a 100Ah battery). The charger should be able to
provide a driving voltage as high as 18.00V. Monitor the
battery temperature; discontinue charging if the battery
temperature rises by more than 20°C.
4. Allow the battery to stand for 18 hours after completion
of step 3.
5. Perform a capacity test on the battery and record the
amp-hours delivered. The longer the discharge the more
reliable the result. This is Cycle 1.
6. Repeat steps 3 through 5. The capacity noted in step 5
is the Cycle 2 capacity. Proceed to step 7 only if Cycle
2 capacity is greater than Cycle 1 capacity; otherwise
replace the battery.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 5 to get Cycle 3 capacity and
proceed to step 8 only if Cycle 3 capacity is equal to or
more than the capacity in Cycle 2. Replace the battery
if Cycle 3 capacity is less than Cycle 2 capacity. If the
capacity is greater than or equal to 80% of the rated
capacity of the battery it may be returned to service.
8. Recharge the battery and put back in service if Cycle 3
capacity is equal to or exceeds Cycle 2 capacity.

I have managed to bring back several "failed" Odysseys using this method, it works really well
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:07 AM   #27
Plane Dr OP
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I looked at that and did the closest I could to it without excessive equipment. What I did is similar I am considering a couple more deep cycles but my initial concern was sorting the bike side as well while I still had time.
__________________
01/09 DRZ470SSW more bits than necesary
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2003 Z1000 Nuclear Pumpkin (gone)
86 RG500WW (gone)

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Old 12-30-2012, 05:16 PM   #28
Poolside
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Quote:
Out of the Odyssey manual:

1. Bring the battery to room temperature—25°C (77°F)—if it
is not already there.
2. Measure the open circuit voltage (OCV). Continue to step
3 if it measures at least 6.00V.
3. Charge the battery for 24 hours using a constant current
charge that is 5% of the 20-hour capacity of the battery
(5A for a 100Ah battery). The charger should be able to
provide a driving voltage as high as 18.00V. Monitor the
battery temperature; discontinue charging if the battery
temperature rises by more than 20°C.
4. Allow the battery to stand for 18 hours after completion
of step 3.
5. Perform a capacity test on the battery and record the
amp-hours delivered. The longer the discharge the more
reliable the result. This is Cycle 1.
6. Repeat steps 3 through 5. The capacity noted in step 5
is the Cycle 2 capacity. Proceed to step 7 only if Cycle
2 capacity is greater than Cycle 1 capacity; otherwise
replace the battery.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 5 to get Cycle 3 capacity and
proceed to step 8 only if Cycle 3 capacity is equal to or
more than the capacity in Cycle 2. Replace the battery
if Cycle 3 capacity is less than Cycle 2 capacity. If the
capacity is greater than or equal to 80% of the rated
capacity of the battery it may be returned to service.
8. Recharge the battery and put back in service if Cycle 3
capacity is equal to or exceeds Cycle 2 capacity.
I've always been impressed by the mystical practices associated with Odyssey batteries.



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Old 12-30-2012, 09:51 PM   #29
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I only got 2 years of college in, so when it came time to replace my second BMW gel battery that had given 5 years of service, I bought anudder one for my 1200 GT. Plugged in the Battery Tender Jr and done. I now know why they named them Odyssey...........
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:45 AM   #30
lhendrik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Addict View Post
Great to hear your progress.

If you really want to bring the battery to full capacity you can do the following:
(you will need an 18v current limited power supply)

Out of the Odyssey manual:

1. Bring the battery to room temperature—25°C (77°F)—if it
is not already there.
2. Measure the open circuit voltage (OCV). Continue to step
3 if it measures at least 6.00V.
3. Charge the battery for 24 hours using a constant current
charge that is 5% of the 20-hour capacity of the battery
(5A for a 100Ah battery). The charger should be able to
provide a driving voltage as high as 18.00V. Monitor the
battery temperature; discontinue charging if the battery
temperature rises by more than 20°C.
4. Allow the battery to stand for 18 hours after completion
of step 3.
5. Perform a capacity test on the battery and record the
amp-hours delivered. The longer the discharge the more
reliable the result. This is Cycle 1.
6. Repeat steps 3 through 5. The capacity noted in step 5
is the Cycle 2 capacity. Proceed to step 7 only if Cycle
2 capacity is greater than Cycle 1 capacity; otherwise
replace the battery.
7. Repeat steps 3 through 5 to get Cycle 3 capacity and
proceed to step 8 only if Cycle 3 capacity is equal to or
more than the capacity in Cycle 2. Replace the battery
if Cycle 3 capacity is less than Cycle 2 capacity. If the
capacity is greater than or equal to 80% of the rated
capacity of the battery it may be returned to service.
8. Recharge the battery and put back in service if Cycle 3
capacity is equal to or exceeds Cycle 2 capacity.

I have managed to bring back several "failed" Odysseys using this method, it works really well
Yeah, well I'm pretty sure the battery in the Apollo 13 spacecraft was an Odyssey. This is absurd.
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