is it my clutch or something else?

[allonsye]

Originally Posted by def

....... your fluid seems to be adulterated. A flush and fill is in order. If you still have problems, the slave is likely the culprit.

Truth nugget here. It's a amazing the difference fresh fluid and a thorough bleed makes assuming no other mechanical issues.

[vintagerider]

Originally Posted by bobinaustin

i checked the master cylinder. plenty of fluid but its pretty dark and cloudy....

i will price em out and assess the instructions here:
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom...20replace.html

but that page is missing all links to pics. i have my clymer too but of course having never done it, i am a little apprehensive.

If the fluid has bad odor that's confirmation of bad input shaft rear seal and bad seal and bearing in slave. If you aren't yet convinced of need to replace slave then pull it off for inspection. Quite easy really as long as you don't try to take off banjo bolts while slave still mounted. This is one of the rare jobs that I'd leave the clymer on the shelf except for torque values.

You do not need to take the hoses off the slave to withdraw it from cavity to inspect the cavity for leaking oil. The only thing that is remotely challenging is removing the rear shock and muffler.

BBY has the best deal on the slave kit. Comes with gasket and crush rings. Stop riding the mc until you inspect the cavity or you may loose your clutch disk.

[Multiplicity]

Originally Posted by vintagerider

If the fluid has bad odor that's confirmation of bad input shaft rear seal and bad seal and bearing in slave. If you aren't yet convinced of need to replace slave then pull it off for inspection. Quite easy really as long as you don't try to take off banjo bolts while slave still mounted. This is one of the rare jobs that I'd leave the clymer on the shelf except for torque values.

You do not need to take the hoses off the slave to withdraw it from cavity to inspect the cavity for leaking oil. The only thing that is remotely challenging is removing the rear shock and muffler.

BBY has the best deal on the slave kit. Comes with gasket and crush rings. Stop riding the mc until you inspect the cavity or you may loose your clutch disk.

I agree. A cavity search is in order

[bobinaustin]

thats the plan for tomorrow. i am just trying to determine if i need anything special to do the drain? i see some posts where people use a vacuum system? and one reply here mentioned using a simple bottle to catch the fluid? unsure how to proceed. i am not sure where on my bike specifically where to bleed the fluid from?? i have seen one pictorial that others have linked to that seems to not be for my bike and most of the pics are broken links.

the service manual is great for description but has no pics at all. ugh.

Originally Posted by def

You have gotten a myriad of responses here, some good, some of no value (cable???).

First, I would remove the clutch reservoir cover and determine that your reservoir is not overfilled. As the clutch wears, the fluid level increases, the opposite of a cable system where the free play increases with age and use.

Next, as you have posted, your fluid seems to be adulterated. A flush and fill is in order. If you still have problems, the slave is likely the culprit.

[Multiplicity]

Originally Posted by bobinaustin

thats the plan for tomorrow. i am just trying to determine if i need anything special to do the drain? i see some posts where people use a vacuum system? and one reply here mentioned using a simple bottle to catch the fluid? unsure how to proceed. i am not sure where on my bike specifically where to bleed the fluid from?? i have seen one pictorial that others have linked to that seems to not be for my bike and most of the pics are broken links.

the service manual is great for description but has no pics at all. ugh.

I always empty the master cylinder first, but I use a vacuum bleeder. You can buy the Mighty Vac at your local auto parts or Wal-Mart. You should have one anyways if you're a DIY guy.

The bottle is a simple plastic bottle with a hole in the cap. You just get some small vacuum hose and run it into the bottle and leave enough to attach it to the bleeder. Then open the bleeder and the fluid runs into the bottle. Nothing could be simpler.
The system should be capable of gravity bleeding if you can find a Mighty Vac., but you should have one to bleed it after repairs. After it's been drained, remove the slave cylinder from the case. Just make sure you use the proper fluid for your application.

[vintagerider]

when bleeding is not self evident:
The bleed hose terminates in a BMW "speed fill" assembly which is zip tied to the RS of the frame. This barrel contains ball bearing and a spring. The bearing will be somewhat seized in the opening if sys hasn't been bled in a while. poke it with a drift

opt A: remove the speed fill adapter and replace with a conventional 10mm x 1 bleed nipple from the auto parts. You will knead a pencil flame torch to melt the thread lock on the speed adapter

opt b: retain speed fill adapter. fit the 10x1 adapter in the speed fill adapter. Cause it to depress the ball bearing but do not drive it so that the ball obstructs the other (inner opening) of the speed fill adapter. i.e. tun it just a little so that the ball is half way though it's travel.

either method will allow fluid to flow out of the bleed hose. Blow, suck or let it drain by gravity. It doesn't really matter. Watch the paint.

[eric2]

The question that nobody has asked yet is when was the last time you had the fluid in your hydraulic clutch flushed?

If the answer is never, then you are about to learn a very expensive lesson, you may have just a problem with the slave cylinder, or the resulting corrosion has caused multiple issues, which may or may not include:

contaminated clutch disc
ruined slave cylinder
ruined master cylinder
rear main seal

A mity vac would be a good thing to invest in, it will make flushing the clutch circuit a five minute job.

It would be wise to consider flushing your brakes too if they haven't been done.

Brake fluid is hyrdoscopic, so it will attract water which will settle in the lower regions and eat away metal components. Thats why bmw switched from brake fluid to hydraulic fluid after the 1150 series.

[gsweave]

Bob like vintage has pointed out just the slave, easy peasy $150. for the new slave. #6 buy the seal #14 as well.



Drop the rear shock, climb underneath in the wheel well, cut down a stubby allen wrench, thinking 6mm.

I bleed mine twice a year and still have had to replace two of the shiting bastards...In 100k

Mity-vac makes it an easy chore. like vintage says bleeder right side under the 1.5 inch foam rubber thingy right below seat and zipped to frame.


consider adding a new speigler clutch line while you are under there. you will find corrosion on the banjo from handlebar line.

[vintagerider]

2013 prediction: A book "How I chased the agents of doom back in to the Dark Rift and saved the planet with only a slingshot and a BMW GS" becomes a billion dollar best seller and the basis for a new movie Long way Back.

[bobinaustin]

so im planning on bleeding he clutch but im getting conflicting information on time it might take to do and i cant seem to find the bleeder valve on my bike?

the shop manual shows it here


and on the wisdom article there is a pic of it here, which seems to be on the other side of the bike. neither place seems to have the valve on my bike as far as i can see.


obviously im missing where the valve is. anyone with an 1150gs that has done this in recent memory please help!

[Multiplicity]

Originally Posted by vintagerider

You are jumping ahead. What mutiplicity says sucks. Fluid does not need to be disturbed to inspect the two seals and bearing. While it is very likely that you will blow or suck in the process of replacing the slave or fluid, an inspection alone requires neither.

As I've said several times, all the work is in removing the wheel, shock and muffler. Either drop the left fork tube or disconnect the banjo from the handlebar. Free the bleed line from the frame then remove the three hex bolts which mount the slave (very easy). Withdraw slave. Done.

In the event that anxiety over removing the slave delayed your response you may have additional work to replace the clutch. Not worth speculating over. Take it one step at a time.

when bleeding is not self evident:
The bleed hose terminates in a BMW "speed fill" assembly which is zip tied to the RS of the frame. This barrel contains ball bearing and a spring. The bearing will be somewhat seized in the opening if sys hasn't been bled in a while. poke it with a drift

opt A: remove the speed fill adapter and replace with a conventional 10mm x 1 bleed nipple from the auto parts. You will knead a pencil flame torch to melt the thread lock on the speed adapter

opt b: retain speed fill adapter. fit the 10x1 adapter in the speed fill adapter. Cause it to depress the ball bearing but do not drive it so that the ball obstructs the other (inner opening) of the speed fill adapter. i.e. tun it just a little so that the ball is half way though it's travel.

either method will allow fluid to flow out of the bleed hose. Blow, suck or let it drain by gravity. It doesn't really matter. Watch the paint.

I was repling directly to his question, not the entire process. Don't act like a little retarded school girl. Thanks.

[GS Addict]

Dark fluid as reported = failed slave cylinder (piston is spinning due to failed release bearing) no amount of flushing is going to fix. Too late.
When the slave is pulled there will be a dark sludge in the cavity and the slave end. It looks like grease but it is water soluble (product of brake fluid leakage) be sure to clean out completely.

BB has good price on slave cylinders that are the exact OEM Magura replacement.

Before installing be sure to check the new slave release bearing for adequate grease.
I find almost every new one from BMW has just a tiny dab of grease often not even touching the balls (automated greasing?)
Add high temp wheel bearing grease with a Q tip and work around ensuring that all the balls are well greased.
That wee bearing is spinning all the time!

While in there be sure to cut back the neoprene sleeve that partially covers the pressure line coming down from the clutch lever.
It typically holds water in it and will eventually rust out the elbow above the banjo. Cut back about 1"

As far as bleeding the system goes I push the brake fluid up from the bottom the way BMW does it at the factory.
A modified brake bleed screw (pushes the ball) and a syringe does the job. Some find bleeding a dry clutch system frustrating, this method takes 2 minutes. Cover the open clutch reservoir with a rag as fluid will shoot up when it arrives!
Do not over fill, as the clutch wears the reservoir level rises (opposite of the brake system)

Note: I believe that greasing the release bearing is as important as regularly flushing brake fluid.
My original slave cylinder is at 237,000km. I change my fluid every year and have re-lubed the bearing 3 times.


Notice the dry balls in upper picture, this is typical of what I have seen.




Detail on how to trim the neoprene sleeve. This is a near new cable and the rust is just starting. Most times rust has progressed much further by the time I see them




Reverse bleed, also works great when installing SS Brake lines




Closeup of modified bleed screw (available at any parts jobber) Grind down the end so the threads will engage, turn in and the tip will push the ball back so the fluid can go by.

[Zoef zoef]

Originally Posted by bobinaustin

so im planning on bleeding he clutch but im getting conflicting information on time it might take to do and i cant seem to find the bleeder valve on my bike?


and on the wisdom article there is a pic of it here, which seems to be on the other side of the bike. neither place seems to have the valve on my bike as far as i can see.


obviously im missing where the valve is. anyone with an 1150gs that has done this in recent memory please help!

This picture is from the right hand side of the bike, and is just above the passenger footrest (manual refers to the same location, you're looking through the bike). If you cut the tywrap you see above in the foto, the hose and endfitting will drop down/can be lowered. The end fitting is enclosed in the foam you see. The end cap can be removed then (be carefull, loctite is probably present). Then a bleed screw has to be inserted for the flushing.

[GS Addict]

Originally Posted by vintagerider

don't re-use lower shock bolt - replace w/oem only


- Upgrading from grey to brown seal: don't even think of not replacing the rear input shaft seal

OE BMW Manual makes no mention of replacing the lower shock bolt, neither does the Max parts fiche.
I see no purpose unless it was damaged removing it.

If it has the Brown seal there is no need to change if the failure is recent. I have never had an issue with not changing it. Unless you have the proper seal driver (easily made but required) inexperienced hands can do more damage than good.

[jdub]

Originally Posted by GS Addict

Before installing be sure to check the new slave release bearing for adequate grease.
I find almost every new one from BMW has just a tiny dab of grease often not even touching the balls (automated greasing?)
Add high temp wheel bearing grease with a Q tip and work around ensuring that all the balls are well greased.
That wee bearing is spinning all the time!

Note: I believe that greasing the release bearing is as important as regularly flushing brake fluid.
My original slave cylinder is at 237,000km. I change my fluid every year and have re-lubed the bearing 3 times.


Notice the dry balls in upper picture, this is typical of what I have seen.

Very, very good advice about the bearing grease. After having two of these bearings fail on two different BMWs, I've learned to keep the bearing well greased and haven't had another problem.