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Old 12-29-2012, 09:54 PM   #15106
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
Have any of you guys owned vstroms in the past? What made you change to the s10?
The DL1000 was great on the highway at just over the speed limit, The bike was OK on dirt but not really at home,
The motor was not so fussed at revving under 4K, it was OK but not happy, despite the detune of a detune it still felt like a sports motor wanted to get out.
The suspension was OK on the road but serious bumps off the tarmac had it crashing a bit.
It sucked fuel way harder than it should.
It was a bit top heavy and winds caused it grief, but that didn't bother me that much.

The s10 is better in almost every way and in particular solved the problems above with the only drawback being a slightly slower steering and the lights aren't quite as good and it cost more, as it should.

Very happy camper I am.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:45 AM   #15107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
Have any of you guys owned vstroms in the past? What made you change to the s10?

I'm looking at getting a new bike and I'm researching the s10 and 1100gs.
I had a 650 Strom. My wife did, too. We sold hers, and I gave her mine when I bought the Tenere.

Mine was (is) a 2007 w/ 70,000 miles.

Honestly - and I expect to get flamed like a mother fucker here - in my opinion the Strom is a better bike. The Tenere is great, and is growing on me; don't get me wrong. Recently, though, I rode both back to back, and other than the power of the Tenere, the Strom came away just feeling nicer: smoother, more comfortable, and better sorted out without the need to do clutch mods / ECU reflashes, and the like. Considering the MSRP is signifcantly lower - like 6 grand - and mine was paid for, I really feel that every month when I write my check to the bank.

If I was doing it all over again, as much as I am enjoyiing the Tenere, I would have just kept my Strom. Luckily it remains in my garage...

Obviously YMMV considerably.

Between the S10 and the GS, I'd think the S10 would be preferable. Lower cost of admission and much greater long term durability.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:26 AM   #15108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah View Post
I had a 650 Strom. My wife did, too. We sold hers, and I gave her mine when I bought the Tenere.

Mine was (is) a 2007 w/ 70,000 miles.

Honestly - and I expect to get flamed like a mother fucker here - in my opinion the Strom is a better bike. The Tenere is great, and is growing on me; don't get me wrong. Recently, though, I rode both back to back, and other than the power of the Tenere, the Strom came away just feeling nicer: smoother, more comfortable, and better sorted out without the need to do clutch mods / ECU reflashes, and the like. Considering the MSRP is signifcantly lower - like 6 grand - and mine was paid for, I really feel that every month when I write my check to the bank.

If I was doing it all over again, as much as I am enjoyiing the Tenere, I would have just kept my Strom. Luckily it remains in my garage...

Obviously YMMV considerably.

Between the S10 and the GS, I'd think the S10 would be preferable. Lower cost of admission and much greater long term durability.
I don't know that the flamers will come out. That's why opinion threads always end with a
"Take a test ride if you can". 70,000 miles is a safe test ride.

I have two SV650s. I really like that motor too. Had a DL 1000 for 8 years. Can't say I miss
it compared to the Tenere. It really is about finding a model that works for you. Sounds like you have.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:44 AM   #15109
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The SV650 motor is an all time favorite of mine. In fact, a 2002 SV650 that I bought for the wife unexpectedly changed my motorcycling taste forever. That motor got me off of inline 4 motorcycles.

However, they never put that sweet motor in an off-road package that could truly handle off-road like I want. (Wish they would\have)

Also, 2-up is my favorite adventures nowadays. And my big butt combined with the cargo and wife strapped on the back will be more than that sweet little motor can handle happily.

I get your point. But it applies to your "mission". And I even agree with you for that mission. But I use the S10 in ways the wee just could not compete.

No flame here brother.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:54 AM   #15110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
...............

Once we get Old Git Ray over here next summer we can run the Euro stuff against the US.

It's really such a moot argument anyway. These bikes are not 1/4 mile monsters to begin with.
If that was what it was all about the Multistrada would be the only game in town.

I just looked at the reflash was to solve some fueling issues, it does and dies give it some
additional zip. It does not turn it into a sport bike.
Small problem with that...I think.

I am getting mine done next month but it is from an ECU-Unleashed satellite dealer in the UK. http://www.raceengineering.info/

So my flash will probably be US spec. On top of that, having spoken to them, they are a bit unhappy with the results obtained when they flashed an S10, so they are looking at removing the O2 sensors and rejigging it. Apparently one bike ran well enough but then started generating fault codes. The bike may have been modified in other ways too (exhaust/filter etc). The off idle fueling was the problem IIRC.
I was phoning international so I did not go into detail but I arrived back in the UK yesterday so I will get better details when I go and see them in the New Year. Fortunately they are only 30mins drive from me. It is likely that I will lend them my bike to do some testing with.

I will up date when I know some more.

However, as you say above, speed is not a requirement, drive-ability is the big issue. For me anyway.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #15111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
I am getting mine done next month but it is from an ECU-Unleashed satellite dealer in the UK. http://www.raceengineering.info/ ...


...However, as you say above, speed is not a requirement, drive-ability is the big issue. For me anyway.






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Old 12-31-2012, 07:08 AM   #15112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah View Post
I had a 650 Strom. My wife did, too. We sold hers, and I gave her mine when I bought the Tenere.

Mine was (is) a 2007 w/ 70,000 miles.

Honestly - and I expect to get flamed like a mother fucker here - in my opinion the Strom is a better bike. The Tenere is great, and is growing on me; don't get me wrong. Recently, though, I rode both back to back, and other than the power of the Tenere, the Strom came away just feeling nicer: smoother, more comfortable, and better sorted out without the need to do clutch mods / ECU reflashes, and the like. Considering the MSRP is signifcantly lower - like 6 grand - and mine was paid for, I really feel that every month when I write my check to the bank.

If I was doing it all over again, as much as I am enjoyiing the Tenere, I would have just kept my Strom. Luckily it remains in my garage...

Obviously YMMV considerably.

Between the S10 and the GS, I'd think the S10 would be preferable. Lower cost of admission and much greater long term durability.
Naw, man. You didn't come out flaming, so why should anyone else? It's all individual preference anyhow. From my frame of mind, the Tenere has everything I started wanting from my previous rides once I 'out-grew (or out-aged) the motard and sport bike phase.

I love to tour on and off road and the Tenere definitely has the frame/subframe and suspension to handle that. The next thing on my list was having enough excess electrical capacity to handle a full compliment of heated gear and driving lights..check! Overall reliability, check! Didn't want to deal with a a chain anymore..Check!

I must admint I was a bit underwhelmed for maybe the first week or two of ownership, but the machine has grown on me steadily since then. I'm a very happy camper with it today. It's all loosened up now, and feels very smooth and sorted to me although I understand how one man's idea of 'smooth and sorted' might not agree with the next fella.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:17 AM   #15113
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Mainly I'm looking for a long distance tourer. I ride dirt but not much. But I do go down a lot of rough roads in the mountains and the extra suspension of the adv bikes is very nice. I've narrowed it down to two bikes. GS1150..this one has always interested me but I hear horror stories about repairs and cost of Ownership. I've talked to BMW guys. It seems half say it's not reliable and expensive, the other half have put 100k on the bike with no issues. Obviously I'm looking at the s10. Seems to tick all the boxes and and has the standard japanese bike reliability.

I think buells are awesome but I don't want a bike with that much character
The tiges are nice as well but triumph dealership are few and far between and my wife wasn't enthused with the passenger accommodation.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:30 AM   #15114
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As a former DL1000 owner, I'll throw in my 2 cents too. No bike is perfect. Every machine has its Achille's heel. I think the DL1000 is an ok motorcycle with a great motor. I think the S10 is a great motorcycle with an ok motor. Suzuki cut corners on the V-Stroms suspension, seat, brakes, etc. and it shows. Yamaha built a bike with great brakes, suspension, off road capability and highway comfort. However, the engine can be a little rough around the edges and it could use another 20HP to be competitive with BMW and Triumph.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:51 AM   #15115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
Mainly I'm looking for a long distance tourer. I ride dirt but not much. But I do go down a lot of rough roads in the mountains and the extra suspension of the adv bikes is very nice. I've narrowed it down to two bikes. GS1150..this one has always interested me but I hear horror stories about repairs and cost of Ownership. I've talked to BMW guys. It seems half say it's not reliable and expensive, the other half have put 100k on the bike with no issues. Obviously I'm looking at the s10. Seems to tick all the boxes and and has the standard japanese bike reliability.

I think buells are awesome but I don't want a bike with that much character
The tiges are nice as well but triumph dealership are few and far between and my wife wasn't enthused with the passenger accommodation.
As a former 1150 owner, I definitely fell into the horror story category. I'm sure there are plenty of high mileage BMWs with few problems. I also think there are some defensive owners also who may not be entirely truthful. When I was part of the BMW faithful, an inmate here told me he didn't trust his beloved GS's once they got past 30-40k miles. That is why he bought a new bike every year or two. Yet over at GSpot, I have seen him defend BMW's stellar reliability time and time again.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:22 AM   #15116
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Originally Posted by scottie boy View Post
As a former 1150 owner, I definitely fell into the horror story category. I'm sure there are plenty of high mileage BMWs with few problems. I also think there are some defensive owners also who may not be entirely truthful. When I was part of the BMW faithful, an inmate here told me he didn't trust his beloved GS's once they got past 30-40k miles. That is why he bought a new bike every year or two. Yet over at GSpot, I have seen him defend BMW's stellar reliability time and time again.
I've heard a few stories like that. I posted on the oil head thread and a lot of those guys said when buying new you should automatically figure in the cost of the extended warranty. If I looked at it objectively I'd scratch the BMW off my list. Normally most things I buy can be described as bomb proof or bang for the buck. From what I've read the BMW often falls short in both those categories. But it has won adventure tourer of the year accolades time after time. I'll test ride both and go from there. So far in terms of reliability the Japanese bike should do better, and that's very important to me. I just expect a bike to work. I do all my own maintenance because I'm cheap not because I enjoy it. So I'd rather spend my time riding then wrenching.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:34 AM   #15117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottie boy View Post
As a former 1150 owner, I definitely fell into the horror story category. I'm sure there are plenty of high mileage BMWs with few problems. I also think there are some defensive owners also who may not be entirely truthful. When I was part of the BMW faithful, an inmate here told me he didn't trust his beloved GS's once they got past 30-40k miles. That is why he bought a new bike every year or two. Yet over at GSpot, I have seen him defend BMW's stellar reliability time and time again.

Amen to that, Bruddah!

I'm a former 1150 owner, too, and though mine never suffered any major meltdowns it had tons of niggling things go wrong, like the fuel clamps (which almost caused a huge fire), but what was really disconcerting was all the potentially major ones I *JUST* caught before they went nuclear... That began the nagging thoughts of distrust, where I always worried if the bike would get me home. One day I realized that's not the way you want to feel about a long-distance mount.

And like you, during those years I rode the Beemer I had met riding folks who rode 'em, some who became riding buddies, and most of those were the devout BMW kool-aid drinking faithful. Some of them are well and truly bat-crazy... I know one who has suffered *TWO* final drive failures, a major clutch failure, an alternator failure, and a couple of other major meltdowns - all in less than 50,000 miles - and he still owns that POS R1150R, and loves it! Oh, and he can rant about what a POS, no good, prone to breaking down pile it is, but nobody else better mention it... Oh, no! Then he becomes ultra defensive about the marque and raves about "German Engineering"!

And heaven forbid the guy I know who is the former BMW dealer... He has had no less than 8 BMW products in the last 7 years - with at least two at any one time - and he'll bore you senseless telling how "reliable" his Beemers are. Of course, he rarely rides any of them more than a few hundred miles from home... And none get more than a few thousand miles on 'em! He spends most of his time with 'em changing the oil and polishing 'em!

And I know several others who do just as your friend... They simply buy new Beemers ever couple of years, and they only ride about 15,000-20,000 miles in that time. Those are the ones constantly preaching from the Propeller Pulpit about BMW's "Legendary Reliability" and how they've owned 20 of 'em and never had a problem... Well, except for this little thing, and that little thing, and the other thing, too, etc., etc., etc.

It's hilarious sometimes.


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Old 12-31-2012, 11:46 AM   #15118
Boyd Koehler
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Here’s my 2-cents (short and sweet version) on the topic of the reliability of the GS.

#1. Bought a new R1200GS. Loved the bike
#2. Took the bike in because I ran out of fuel even though the fuel level indicated I had 1/2 tank. Apparently when the bike was assembled at the factory the rubber hose between the two sides of the tank was pinched. Thus one side had fuel, the other was empty. Still loved the bike.
#3. Took it to the shop to repair the fuel level censer. Still loved the bike
#4. Took it back to the shop in less than 300 miles to have another fuel censer installed. Still loved the bike.
#5. Took it back to the shop to have an electrical problem fixed (would not start with side-stand down)(yes, I had it out of gear ). It took the mechanic a few days (3-weeks) to locate the real issue but it was fixed. Still loved the bike but was starting to get tired of the repeated visits to the shop.
#6. Took it back in the shop for ANOTHER fuel level censer. Was told that BMW is aware of this problem and a permanent fix is now available. Still loved the bike but was having doubts in the back of my mind.
#7. Took the damn thing back to the shop because after the last fuel censer was installed I could smell raw fuel. The frickin mechanic didn’t put the fuel cap gasket on correct. Yes, I still loved the bike but had serious doubts with the dealers mechanics as well as BMW’s reliability.
#8. You guessed it. Took the #($#$*&#*#$ #$(#$@**%$$@#$* thing back into the shop for an oil leak (If I wanted a bike that leaked oil I would have bought a Harley). I still loved the bike but I no longer trusted it.
#9. THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMELS BACK. Rode the bike to a work related seminar that was just 100 miles from the house. Put the side-stand down and watched as a RIVER OF OIL ran out the back of the bike. It took the local BMW dealer 68 days to fix my bike. DID NOT LIKE THE BIKE ANY LONGER. SOLD THE DAMM THING AND BOUGHT MY SUPERTENERE.

The above occurred in less then 14,000 miles.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:22 PM   #15119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domromer View Post
But it has won adventure tourer of the year accolades time after time. I'll test ride both and go from there.
Wife rides a BMW, (F650GS), I ride a Super Ten and my last two bikes were also Yamahas, (FJR 162k, FZ-1 14k sold to get the FJR). Full disclosure, the BMW has been a horror story after it hit 30k.

Bottom line on your above statements, the guys that labeled the GS "adventure tourer of the year" didn't pay for the bikes they were raving about, didn't pay for the repairs to them, and had zero concern for dealer locations and costs over the ownership of the bike. Does BMW make wonderful riding, feature rich bikes? You bet! And do test ride everything on your list and maybe a few not on your list to get the broadest ideas on what you like/dislike, but also peek at the aftermarket and prices of things you might choose, that can be an eye opener too.

BMW has a spotty dealer network, really hit or miss tech training and don't offer in house extended warranty, (though I have been hearing that may change soon). The bikes are not 'user friendly' in terms of doing your own work. I had to mail order a genuine BMW factory service CD, (no paper OE manual exists), in part because the dealer we have nearest to us, (130 miles away in a different state), refused to sell us the OE CD. And the CD sucketh mightily. Its like peeling layers of an onion to get to the info you need. Most of the time I give up and start searching the forums to find torque specs and specific info to do a repair.

I recently had the joy of replacing all the wheel bearings and the steering head bearings on the GS at 48k. I can tell you this, the quality of the OE bearings was piss poor. It's very common on some BMW bikes to lose bearings at what I consider unbelievably low mileage. The rear wheel bearing and steering head bearings didn't last 50k on the little GS. The fronts were not far behind and if I han't been religious about coating the axle in Honda Moly60, the front would have likely already failed. It was almost frozen and the axle was spinning on the inner sleeves instead of the bearing turning as freely as it should have been. (no side play though).

I have a lot of friends with BMWs. They are good people, but I don't always agree with the choices they make, or how they go about making them, Buy nothing on emotion and sex appeal that you're actually going to use. Many, if not most of my BMW friends, and myself in regards to the GS, have experienced the joys of multi-hundred mile tows to the dealer. You know, the closest dealer, when the bike becomes un-rideable due to a break down. BMW quoted me $500 to replace the steering head bearings, btw. $65 of parts for higher quality bearings and seals. Even at $95/Hr labor, the book time was excessive.

Ask yourself this, do you want to become a knowledgeable BMW mechanic? Or do you just want to ride the bike? If you don't have deep enough pockets to just take it to the dealer every time and not flinch at the repair bills, buy the Super Ten or some other Japanese bike and just ride it. I know far more about fixing the GS than I would like to. And far more details about the fine print in aftermarket warranties.

I've ridden the WeeStrom and DL1000 ManStrom and prefer the 650 for it's tossability, but it wasn't going to meet my needs. You have to certainly consider what your needs are and how you want to use the bike. I do a lot of touring and endurance rally riding. The extra flexibility of the Super Ten, and it still having the power to cruise comfortably while heavily loaded and go anywhere was the draw for me. But I'm also 5'11", 250# too.

Off topic, you TX boys need to call a RTE. I'm currently traveling with the wife and in New Orleans for new years, but might be able to convince her to detour along the third coast for lunch in a few days.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:37 PM   #15120
Dallara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
...Ask yourself this, do you want to become a knowledgeable BMW mechanic? Or do you just want to ride the bike? If you don't have deep enough pockets to just take it to the dealer every time and not flinch at the repair bills, buy the Super Ten or some other Japanese bike and just ride it. I know far more about fixing the GS than I would like to...


Off topic, you TX boys need to call a RTE. I'm currently traveling with the wife and in New Orleans for new years, but might be able to convince her to detour along the third coast for lunch in a few days
.

Can I have another Amen, Bruddah!!!

I know what you mean about becoming a much more "knowledgeable BMW mechanic" than I ever wanted to...

Even the Ducati's I've owned haven't been the maintenance and repair headaches the BMW's were. What's that tell ya'?

On another note, Dirty Bike...

When and where are planning to visit on the Texas Gulf Coast? Drop me a PM if you're gonna' be down my way and I'll happily buy you guys lunch, dinner, drinks, whatever!

You've got my e-mail address, too, so if you prefer drop me a line that way.

Dallara



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