2013 ama supercross

[GotMojo?]

Originally Posted by Beez

GotMojo's photo reminds me, what about Alessi? Is he not even worth mentioning? I guess he's a top 10er but not a top fiver. Did he get 2nd in MX only because all the top guys except RD5 were out? Probably, but he was also consistently beating Short, Grant, Weimer and others who've been mentioned so far.

I think he's faster at the outdoors than he is in supercross. Didn't he win a main this year in outdoor, holding off Dungey or Stewart for the entire race? In SX, I think he'll consistently be the next fastest guy behind the usual RV, RD, CR, and JS (and Barcia) freight train.

[pbarmy]

These all fast guys,I think Dungey's stronger in the longer races(outdoors)where conditioning counts.250's ought to be great,always a battle,we'll have to see who races where.

[brents347]

Originally Posted by GotMojo?

I think he's faster at the outdoors than he is in supercross. Didn't he win a main this year in outdoor, holding off Dungey or Stewart for the entire race? In SX, I think he'll consistently be the next fastest guy behind the usual RV, RD, CR, and JS (and Barcia) freight train.

SX has always been Alessis's weakness. He's has always been substantially more competitive in MX. I don't even think he'll be that next-best guy. After Stewart, Dungey, RV, Reed, Barcia and Canard you are already up to 7th place and I think that will be a guy like Windham or Short (or even more likely Weimer or even Cole Seely who rode a 450 very well in a few rounds last year) before it will ever be Alessi in season ending points.

So here's my official season points picks.
1-Dungey
2-Villopoto
3-Barcia
4-Reed
5-Windham
6-Canard
7-Weimer
8-Stewart after missing 4 rounds on the season

I left Seely out of these picks because he rode the factory Honda filling in for Canard very well last year, but he won't get anywhere that level of quality bike this year.

Anyone else want to go on record for season result picks.

[zenjen]

Originally Posted by GotMojo?

I think that's what Dungey does... he pushes it just enough to win, or at least get on the podium. Meanwhile riders like James Stewart are riding past their limits all the time, and crashing out, sometimes even getting injured. Dungey may be boring to watch sometimes, but he knows what he's doing and just rides hard enough to get on the box.

Dungey was interviewed at the start of the outdoor season and was asked what his chances were against Stewart. He just smiled and said he had a plan.

I think his plan was to push James just hard enough in the first few rounds to let Bubba take care of himself. He kept closing in on James in each race until James did just that.

Dungey is a smart racer and he is fast........ but he is not as fast as Villopoto.

.

[ADK]

Dungey will eventually retire from racing healthy and wealthy. I wonder what his future plans are post racing?

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by brents347

So again, I understand completely what you are saying, but I think he's winning more against full competition than you are giving him credit for.

He probably is, I'm sure perception plays a role. I do recall though that when I really started closelyfollowing these guys a few years back when Stewart won his last SX title, when he dnf'd A1 that he was winning an awful lot of races. Maybe my perception of the other guys is skewed as well. Again it would be just fine with me if Dungey swept every moto between now and vegas, or any of the rest of them. Who knows it could become a Barcia show the new Honda 450 with the dual exhaust might be worth a 1/2 a second alone. Can't believe that is even a relevant statement but it is in todays world. I'm glad you're debating the point I was kind of wondering what the real tally was. It would be interesting to make some kind of bubble chart with each riders win and accompanying bubbles showing how many of the top dogs were there that day. Something like that. I'm late to the SX game and wish I'd have watched more but I never liked McGrath or Charmichael so their runs never interested me. As far as Charmichael being the "goat" I'd beg to differ on that as well but I never really followed those years. He seems to enjoy his status as he should but to me he was and is a kid, Mikkola, Lackey, Mahlerbe, Tony D, Weil, etc., those were men. They didn't have the benefit of fully functional 65cc's to learn to go fast on when they were 7. In Dungey's defense he could still have 5 or more productive years ahead of him, god knows what his resume will look like. As much as I admire Reeds "comeback" I don't think it's realistic to expect many more years from him but another title for him would also be fine with me, same with Stewart. I still think Stewart has the most upside and whose flame could burn the brightest if he could just get past the inexplicable miscue's (Daytona 2012 ) but I'm not holding my breath.

[ADK]

The reliability of the bikes in RC's era certainly helped him , but he still had to have it in him to win the roughly 80 percent of the races and titles he went after.

[bigborefan]

RC is the Goat. no question about it. The kid was a pro for 10 years. For 10 years he was the outdoor National Champion. He had what, 4 or 5 SX titles as well. He dethroned McGrath. He is second in SX wins and number 1 in MX wins. The numbers do not lie. 2 Perfect seasons. Never failed to defend a title.

He's the Goat for fucks sake. He is every bit as much an elite athlete as Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan or any other top shelf athlete.

I was no RC fan for many many years, but he wore me down. There is no denying the Goat.

And all this talk about Dungey not having any competition is horseshit as well. How do you guys think it works? They just mail the title, check, and plague to whoever they think deserves it. This ain't freestyle MX. It ain't Dungeys fault the competition can't go a season without injury.

[D.T.]

I was a big fan in the J Mcgrath years.

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by bigborefan

RC is the Goat. no question about.

[bigborefan]

Originally Posted by nobrakes

And all of Reed's championships have been while the top competition have been out as well. Reed never won a championship when Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, or Dungey went the distance. Last man standing. But people seem to wear rose colored glasses for their favorites. His competition in '09 MX nationals was Short and Ivan Tedesco. '08 and '04 SX was Kevin Windham. That sums up Reed's championships.

I think Dungey has been pretty damn impressive with some pretty deep fields, and take away 3 mechanicals which were no fault of his own, he has 2 more championships to his name against Villopoto. And Dungey's still a relative youngster, while Reed is now a seasoned veteran. Woulda coulda shoulda, but that's the truth.

Are you one of those asterisks guys? Put an asterisks in the record books because Bob Hannah wasn't there? Where does that crap end?

Reed showed up, he raced, he had the most points at the end of the year. That's how you play the game. Reed has 2 SX titles and Stewart has 2. That's what's in the record books. Sure, James should have a truckload, but he doesn't, does he?

Anyone remember one year in SX, not sure when, they were still on 2 strokes. RC won the title, but Reed flat out beat him the last 6 rounds. RC had a points cushion, but even he said Reed beat him those rounds. Reed ain't no chump. The dude has skills and he is one tough SOB. Plus, he has been showing up outdoors, where the real men go to play.

[ramz]

The Man (Roger De Coster 104 above)

Hands down, the best.
And also in the job he has today.

I raced MX on a TM125 and a TM250 because of his example.
I had a chance to buy an early 70s RH250 and passed it up.
.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by bigborefan

It ain't Dungeys fault the competition can't go a season without injury.

Exactly right. I constantly see comments about how Rider X is faster, but just needs to crash less. Like the two are mutually independent. The reason they're fast is because they crash more. Folks have always worshipped JS because he is so fast, but my bet is that Dungey would be just as fast if he was willing to crash as often as JS.

RV seems to strike a good balance, but let's not forget that two of his last three SX seasons have ended with him being carted off the track with major injuries; it was mostly just luck that the 2012 injury occurred after he wrapped the championship.

- Mark

[bigborefan]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

RD is The Man, RC is The Goat.

RD is motocross royalty, all around super guy. You won't get any argument from me about RD. Class act.

And you are one hell of a photog yourself.

Happy New Year!

[nobrakes]

Originally Posted by brents347

So here's my official season points picks.
1-Dungey
2-Villopoto
3-Barcia
4-Reed
5-Windham
6-Canard
7-Weimer
8-Stewart after missing 4 rounds on the season

Anyone else want to go on record for season result picks.

Mine:

1-Dungey
2-Barcia
3-Villopoto
4-Stewart
5-Reed
6-Canard
7-Milsaps
8-Brayton
9-Weimer
10-Windham


Damn, that's a deep field, never thought I'd ever put Windham that far down. There aren't enough spots even in the top 10 to put in all the guys I want to list up there. Alessi, Tickle, Seely, Grant. Is Tomac moving up to the SX class this year?