2013 ama supercross

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

DeCoster won multiple world championships against the best euro riders and also won multiple Trans Am titles agains both the best euro's and americans. DeCoster went fast on bikes that Ricky Charmichael couldn't even start. Charmichael went fast on bikes designed to go fast. Todays skill sets while incredible are only enabled by the advancements of 50 years to the bikes. Charmichael and all the rest of todays riders are products of the bikes. 60's and 70's riders went fast on bikes with no brakes and no suspension and ill suited power.

Looking at the two eras is like looking at two completely different sports. I saw DeCoster air it out at a Trans Am downhill and it blew me away. Kids at local tracks do much bigger stuff now.

[enduro0125]

It's not about the bike......

As anyone who has ever raced knows,It's not the bike it's the rider.

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by enduro0125

It's not about the bike......

As anyone who has ever raced knows,It's not the bike it's the rider.

right on. thats why kids like Charmichael shouldn't be compared to men like DeCoster. Charmicheal isn't the greatest of all time.

[nobrakes]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

right on. thats why kids like Charmichael shouldn't be compared to men like DeCoster. Charmicheal isn't the greatest of all time.

The best racers of their time rise to the top. Humans in the 60's and 70's are no different than humans 40 or 50 years laters. Evolution doesn't work that fast. RC dominated his time, and beat the best in the world during his time, and has the most wins and series titles of anyone in the history of the sport.

With all due respect, I think you plain wrong to minimize RC's accomplishments. If he grew up on bikes in that era, who is to say he wouldn't dominate that time as well? It's an impossible guessing game. So why not just give each the credit they earned. RC didn't dominate the sport for so many years having anything handed to him. He totally changed the face of MX fitness training and took it to the next level. The guy was an animal. He fed off the challenge and when people stepped it up and got close, he took up to a whole other level and left them in the dust.

[natedog39]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

right on. thats why kids like Charmichael shouldn't be compared to men like DeCoster. Charmicheal isn't the greatest of all time.

If there was one who would it be?

Who else has done anything close to what Carmicheal accomplished?

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by nobrakes

Humans in the 60's and 70's are no different than humans 40 or 50 years laters.

maybe not. when a sport as young as motocross evolves those who came later benefit from the progress. most riders in the 70's wouldn't even think of jumping the way todays mini riders do. the sport has changed which has changed the skillsets that develop. I don't mean to minimize RC's achievements I just don't think anyone can bear the title of greatest of all time and if there is someone in my opinion it isn't him it's DeCoster but I'm assuming he would decline that honor. Charmichael never went and rode in europe he might be the greatest US motocross rider but US should be added to his acronym. GUSMXROAT? I'd like to know how he would have done with some of the GNCC guys of his time if he had lined up with those boys, or baja. To me the mark he made was too narrow to have such a sweeping title. GOAT? Dick Mann won at MX, dirt track, road racing and god knows what else. I could live with him being GOAT.

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by natedog39

If there was one who would it be?

Who else has done anything close to what Carmicheal accomplished?

crankshaft?

[eddie bolted]

Goat Brecker is the Goat

[enduro0125]

I'm glad my dislike for somebody would never keep me from a sport I love so.

[natedog39]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

crankshaft?

That's funny.

[natedog39]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

maybe not. when a sport as young as motocross evolves those who came later benefit from the progress. most riders in the 70's wouldn't even think of jumping the way todays mini riders do. the sport has changed which has changed the skillsets that develop. I don't mean to minimize RC's achievements I just don't think anyone can bear the title of greatest of all time and if there is someone in my opinion it isn't him it's DeCoster but I'm assuming he would decline that honor. Charmichael never went and rode in europe he might be the greatest US motocross rider but US should be added to his acronym. GUSMXROAT? I'd like to know how he would have done with some of the GNCC guys of his time if he had lined up with those boys, or baja. To me the mark he made was too narrow to have such a sweeping title. GOAT? Dick Mann won at MX, dirt track, road racing and god knows what else. I could live with him being GOAT.

You still have to twist the throttle.

If i'm wrong i'm sure i'll be corrected but I believe when Ricky was dubbed the GOAT riders from other era's were considered and no other rider dominated like Carmicheal past or present.

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by natedog39

You still have to twist the throttle.

If i'm wrong i'm sure i'll be corrected but I believe when Ricky was dubbed the GOAT riders from other era's were considered and no other rider dominated like Carmicheal past or present.

I guess I feel like it's more of a point worthy of debate, not a statement that I don't think he deserves it. He's certainly in the very cream of the crop with the longevity and titles and dominance. If DeCoster were to knight him (maybe he has) I would concede.

But he's still no Tony D or Weinert.

[natedog39]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

I guess I feel like it's more of a point worthy of debate, not a statement that I don't think he deserves it. He's certainly in the very cream of the crop with the longevity and titles and dominance. If DeCoster were to knight him (maybe he has) I would concede.

But he's still no Tony D or Weinert.

Nobody is except Tony D or Jimmy Weinert.

The latter who I got to shake hands with at Claverack.

It's also my opinion the Roger DeCosters accomplishments and what he's given back to the sport is amazing.

[brents347]

Originally Posted by nachtflug

maybe not. when a sport as young as motocross evolves those who came later benefit from the progress. most riders in the 70's wouldn't even think of jumping the way todays mini riders do. the sport has changed which has changed the skillsets that develop. I don't mean to minimize RC's achievements I just don't think anyone can bear the title of greatest of all time and if there is someone in my opinion it isn't him it's DeCoster but I'm assuming he would decline that honor. Charmichael never went and rode in europe he might be the greatest US motocross rider but US should be added to his acronym. GUSMXROAT? I'd like to know how he would have done with some of the GNCC guys of his time if he had lined up with those boys, or baja. To me the mark he made was too narrow to have such a sweeping title. GOAT? Dick Mann won at MX, dirt track, road racing and god knows what else. I could live with him being GOAT.

Here's a list of RC's accomplishments. right near the bottom, 4 times MX des Nations individual champion, 3 times team champion.

Would this not qualify him as beating the best in the world on multiple occasions over multiple years? I bet Stefan Everts would concede. He tried many times to beat RC heads up on both U.S. and European soil and never accomplished the goal. And I think in Europe Everts is the MXGP's GOAT.

1996 Rookie of the Year
15 Championships (record) 10 MX (record) 5 SX championships
150 career wins (record)
102 MX wins (record) 48 SX wins (2nd all time)
2 Perfect seasons MX (record)
Only rider to go undefeated in the 125 SX series
Never lost a MX championship 1997-2006. Never lost a title defense that he contested.
4x MX des Nations Individual Champion (3x Team Champions)
AMA Rider of the Year 5x (record)

[nachtflug]

Originally Posted by brents347

Would this not qualify him as beating the best in the world on multiple occasions over multiple years?

yes but not to the extent that DeCoster did in a full series as opposed to a one off annual event.