1200GS Fuel Pump Flange Crack

[Lomax]

Originally Posted by Lomax

Excuse me for being an ID10T on this matter, But what do I need to take off to see these flanges?

Marc 2007 R1200GS.

I am going to quote myself on this. I understand that on the left side I need to remove the side panel and the fuel pump cover. OK got that. Is that it or is there another one of these on the right side for fuel return?

I am going to take a look tomorrow and try not to panic.

Marc

[1200gsceej]

If you have a 2007 then you (probably) do not have an issue on the right side because you (should) have an "in line" quick disconnect (hoses on both sides) and not one where the female QD screws into the tank. See the pix in my post earlier in this thread for a 2005. The white one is the right side. You should have a hose coming off of a molded 'nipple' leading to the in-line QD.
-ceej

Originally Posted by Lomax

I am going to quote myself on this. I understand that on the left side I need to remove the side panel and the fuel pump cover. OK got that. Is that it or is there another one of these on the right side for fuel return?

I am going to take a look tomorrow and try not to panic.

Marc

[1200gsceej]

Got a call back from my "advocate" at BMW. They had reviewed the data in the "certified BMW diagnosis" and basically said that they were not going to do anything (which I could remember the exact words, damn!)
If I have to pay the dealer, then I'm going to ask for the details in the PUMA that they submitted.
Anyway, I'm ordering the BBY clamps. Do folks suggest putting anything between the clamp and the flange?

-ceej

Originally Posted by 1200gsceej

I just got off the phone with Mediha, a Resolution Specialist at BMW (motorcycle) customer service. She said that I would need to get a "certified BMW diagnosis" (from a certified dealer, at my cost) before they could go forward with any resolution investigation.

I"ll go back to my dealer about this, but I am wondering if this is Standard Operating Procedure (they certainly don't want to just take my word for it), or if this is a stall.

Edit: took bike in; they will take a look, then file a "puma" (not sure of spelling). I'll pass it's ref# to the Resolution Specialist and we'll go from there.

Thanks,
-ceej

[mwood7800]

Here is a direct link to the document: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...2036-54387.pdf

My WAG - this has gotten BMWs attention. Aside from the potential for fines and penalties, and bad publicity, it also opens up the potential for personal-injury lawsuits if a bike goes flambe'.

I think this will result in something happening. Indeed - Karl, thanks for keeping us all informed!

[1200gsceej]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

I probably will. MOST are cracked, most won't leak if not messed with too much.
For all, if it is cracked, clamp it!
My 120K mile GS is cracked on both sides, pump and return sides, but does not leak, yet. Still has the original QDs on it too. Not for long.
Jim

So you are not worried about the flange cracking more if you remove the existing plastic female QDs and replace with metal ones?
You think they are better than leaving the plastic ones in place?
-ceej

[WeazyBuddha]

Originally Posted by 1200gsceej

Got a call back from my "advocate" at BMW. They had reviewed the data in the "certified BMW diagnosis" and basically said that they were not going to do anything (which I could remember the exact words, damn!)
If I have to pay the dealer, then I'm going to ask for the details in the PUMA that they submitted.
Anyway, I'm ordering the BBY clamps. Do folks suggest putting anything between the clamp and the flange?
-ceej

Is your bike under warranty? Mine was under warranty with my dealer 300 miles away so I took a picture and dealer got an ok with that to proceed with the repair.

[duke944]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

The force from a cheap hose clamp is not equally distributed, but if it works for you...

Jim

I put it on last spring, after reading a thread about the cracks and seeing several cracks in the flange. This fall I took the clamp off to take a look, and all the cracks were totally squeezed together, all the way around the flange. I fail to see how a hose clamp wouldn't evenly distribute force all the way around, sorry to disagree.

[mikegc]

Originally Posted by 1200gsceej

So you are not worried about the flange cracking more if you remove the existing plastic female QDs and replace with metal ones?
You think they are better than leaving the plastic ones in place?
-ceej

I repaired mine by removeing the plactic QDs and installing BBY's clamps on both sides. I tightened them until snug. Next, I installed the metal QDs finger tight and used plenty of the suppled thread locker. I let it sit for about ten minutes, tightened both clamps and tightened the metal QD about a quarter turn. So far, so good.

Mike

[Lomax]

Not as bad as I expected for a bike with 116K miles on it. There are some small cracks and no leaks. I think I will order up a clamp and put some epoxy or something in the small cracks just to keep it from spreading in the future. As I was advised above there is no issue with the right side as there is no QD over there.




Marc

[JStancampiano]

On ADV models there is..at least there is on the 2007.

Joe

Originally Posted by Lomax

Not as bad as I expected for a bike with 116K miles on it. There are some small cracks and no leaks. I think I will order up a clamp and put some epoxy or something in the small cracks just to keep it from spreading in the future. As I was advised above there is no issue with the right side as there is no QD over there.






Marc

[Lomax]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr

ALL fuel leaks from cracking and bad design should be reported to the NTSB. I do not think this was a good design. Plastic is not suited for female pipe threads, as stated the hoop stress gets very high. It should have been a straight thread with an o-ring for seal. design defect. BMW is not going to fix this with out some pressure.

Rod

Does anyone have a link where you can file a report on this?

Marc

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by 1200gsceej

So you are not worried about the flange cracking more if you remove the existing plastic female QDs and replace with metal ones?
You think they are better than leaving the plastic ones in place?
-ceej

Oh yeah, I am not going to change the female QD without adding the flange clamps. Since this bike was not under my car for it's lifespan, I do not know if the QDs have ever been removed, but it is obvious they are original. I plan on replacing all of them, male and female and adding the clamps.

Jim

[JimVonBaden]

Here is a pictorial on how to change the QDs and add the flange boss clamps.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=852502

A couple photos of my flange bosses.





Jim

[1200gsceej]

Originally Posted by Lomax

Does anyone have a link where you can file a report on this?
Marc

See my post #117 above.
See also post #43

This is the difinitive thread on the problem and filing reports: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthread...=731161&page=1
Joe Rocket posted 'instructions'.

Here is a link to the US DOT NHTSA Case

For those who are interested, the NHTSA case number for this issue is JBN1-18051
NHTSA is pronounced "nitsa" by the way...

-ceej

[TuefelHunden]

Back five or six years ago Ducati and Triumph had QD issues because they used plastic QD's. Ducati replaced all their problem units with Colder Product metal units. Triumph denied the problem until NHTSA forced them to make a change. Colder Products makes the QD's you see in the pics in previous posts. If you order them yourself, request Viton O-rings and internal shutoff's. Normal QD's come with Buna-N O-rings which can degrade because of additives in some gas. Viton is resistant to almost anything. The shutoff makes sure that gas under pressure doesn't shoot out of the lines.

P.S. - NHTSA is the right place to go, not EPA. The Triumph case should be a model for this although the problem was with the QD's not the boss like on the GS. Triumph DID have bikes catch on fire.