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Old 01-02-2013, 12:41 PM   #31
eric2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
It costs me about $150 every 20,000 miles. And I can schedule it so I know it's good. And I can choose from a vast array of sprockets to change my drive ratio if I desire. And it's light. And I don't lose any appreciable horsepower through the drive system. And, and, and ...

In theory there are advantages to a shaft drive. That being said, any effort to favorably compare the BMW shaft drive system to a standard chain drive system is, well, laughable. Sorry.

And I'm not even a BMW hater. I love Beemers. I have almost 300K miles on BMWs. Stuff like this drives me nuts though. It's really turned me of the brand.
If you aren't a BMW hater than why haven't you mentioned the fact that a failed chain can destroy the engine?


Guess that part slipped your mind. I haven't heard of a failed u joint breaking an engine case. Have you?

While I'm at it, if a failed ujoint is a a safety issue then why isn't a failed chain? Seems like either one failing at the wrong time could be troublesome.

Oh, and i got 108k out of my driveshaft. I'll take that anyday over a nasty chain drive.

Since experts like mr Moore haven't been helpful except to beat their chest, here's a quick way to check your
ujoint.

Put the bike in neutral on the centerstand.
rotate the wheel, if you hear a clunk or feel play you have bad ujoint. and your driveshaft needs to be rebuilt

You can get it rebuilt for around $300, google Bruno's machine shop in canada.

When you get it back it will have grease access points, If you regularly grease it it will last the life of the bike.

I haven't heard of any chains lasting the life of the bike.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:19 AM   #32
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See? A living example of the dichotomy, right there.

E2, I hope it keeps working for you. I really do. If every driveshaft lasted 108K miles we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

As a note, I pulled the driveshaft on my 02 GS at 100K miles and sent it off to be refurbished (not by Bruno, by Machine Services Industry in Wisconsin). Both ends blew apart within 20K miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric2 View Post
Since experts like mr Moore haven't been helpful except to beat their chest, here's a quick way to check your ujoint.

Put the bike in neutral on the centerstand.
rotate the wheel, if you hear a clunk or feel play you have bad ujoint. and your driveshaft needs to be rebuilt
That sounds like a good plan. Sorta like I suggested in post #6.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:49 AM   #33
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If you aren't a BMW hater than why haven't you mentioned the fact that a failed chain can destroy the engine?
How many broken chains have you seen? If any, how many went through the engine case. If any, what condition were the chain and sprockets before the chain broke.

A failed u-joint can render the swing arm unserviceable.

I remember, now, the F800 had a recall due to failing chains.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
As a note, I pulled the driveshaft on my 02 GS at 100K miles and sent it off to be refurbished (not by Bruno, by Machine Services Industry in Wisconsin). Both ends blew apart within 20K miles.
Mr. Moore,

Are you saying that the newly refurbished shaft failed after installation? If so, can you be more specific? Why, how did it fail? Was it the fault of the repairs?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:21 AM   #35
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Mr. Moore,

Are you saying that the newly refurbished shaft failed after installation? If so, can you be more specific? Why, how did it fail? Was it the fault of the repairs?
Yeah, sure. As my 02 GS approached 100K miles I decided to do a little refurbing. Brake lines, fuel lines, pivot bearings, etc. I decided to pull the driveshaft and send it out aslo. The back end was pretty notchy when I pulled it. The front end felt fine.

I sent off to Machine Service Industry in Green Bay, WI. They sent if back a week or so later. The whole thing looked new. The u-joints rotated like butter. I was pretty pleased, thinking I had maybe dodged a bullet.

A few months later (5K miles or so) I felt a weird little vibration when I was riding, for just a few seconds. I didn't really think about it, but that night I happened to be in the garage, so I bent down and turned the rear wheel. I heard / felt the immistakeable "clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk" of a bad u-joint. I pulled the swingarm off and found the front u-joint nearly sheared all the way through. It was obviously about to give way. I replaced it with an old front half. About 10K miles after that I was accleerating from a stop light and I heard / felt a loud "CRACK," then a sound like a ball bearing rolling around in a coffee can, except a LOT louder. The bike was still under power, so I limped it home a few miles. I pulled the FD and the u-joint literally fell apart in my hands. It somehow held together enough for me to get home, but it collapsed into pieces as soon as the pressure was released. It looked like someone had thrown a grenade into the tunnel. There were pieces everywhere. The inside of the swingarm was trashed. It was a mess.

My guess is that the refurb company took too much metal away during the process. Maybe the installation of the grease fitting left the shell of the u-joint too weak to tolerate the stresses of use. I don't know.

People seem to have good luck with Bruno. I would definitely try him instead of the other guys if you plan to go that route.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:23 PM   #36
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Yeah, sure. As my 02 GS approached 100K miles I decided to do a little refurbing. Brake lines, fuel lines, pivot bearings, etc. I decided to pull the driveshaft and send it out aslo. The back end was pretty notchy when I pulled it. The front end felt fine.

I sent off to Machine Service Industry in Green Bay, WI. They sent if back a week or so later. The whole thing looked new. The u-joints rotated like butter. I was pretty pleased, thinking I had maybe dodged a bullet.

A few months later (5K miles or so) I felt a weird little vibration when I was riding, for just a few seconds. I didn't really think about it, but that night I happened to be in the garage, so I bent down and turned the rear wheel. I heard / felt the immistakeable "clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk" of a bad u-joint. I pulled the swingarm off and found the front u-joint nearly sheared all the way through. It was obviously about to give way. I replaced it with an old front half. About 10K miles after that I was accleerating from a stop light and I heard / felt a loud "CRACK," then a sound like a ball bearing rolling around in a coffee can, except a LOT louder. The bike was still under power, so I limped it home a few miles. I pulled the FD and the u-joint literally fell apart in my hands. It somehow held together enough for me to get home, but it collapsed into pieces as soon as the pressure was released. It looked like someone had thrown a grenade into the tunnel. There were pieces everywhere. The inside of the swingarm was trashed. It was a mess.

My guess is that the refurb company took too much metal away during the process. Maybe the installation of the grease fitting left the shell of the u-joint too weak to tolerate the stresses of use. I don't know.

People seem to have good luck with Bruno. I would definitely try him instead of the other guys if you plan to go that route.
My 2001 GS has a separate, removable rear u-joint that joined by splines to the rear of the driveshaft and FD pinion shaft. During assembly, the pair of u-joints must be phased correctly to eliminate rotational acceleration and deceleration speeds from the u-joints and resulting flexing of the driveshaft.

Here is the excerpt from my REProm regarding phasing...not very well explained:

Caution:

The universal joints for universal shaft and rear
wheel drive must be installed in the same position.


I am not familiar with the 2002 driveshaft design. Does the shaft/u-joint require phasing or are the splines keyed so that phasing takes place with assembly?

If not, did the shaft get installed with proper phasing when you installed the refurbished shaft?

You don't perhaps have some photos of the failed refurbished shaft do you?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #37
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It was phased correctly. I think the 2001 and 2002 are exactly teh same.

I don't have any pics.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:37 AM   #38
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Chains

Next door in F800GS forum there was a couple very long threads on chains that broke destroying rear ends some within warranty some not. Some at speed on the highway. I did not have an issue with the chain on my 800 but you have to oil the bloody thing reguarly.
The BMW standard drive shaft with u-joints if Bruno can install grease fittings may well be best.
How long they will last seems to be the unknown, we just do not like not knowing when it will go out.


Quote:
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How many broken chains have you seen? If any, how many went through the engine case. If any, what condition were the chain and sprockets before the chain broke.

A failed u-joint can render the swing arm unserviceable.

I remember, now, the F800 had a recall due to failing chains.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:24 PM   #39
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Next door in F800GS forum there was a couple very long threads on chains that broke destroying rear ends some within warranty some not. Some at speed on the highway. I did not have an issue with the chain on my 800 but you have to oil the bloody thing reguarly.
The BMW standard drive shaft with u-joints if Bruno can install grease fittings may well be best.
How long they will last seems to be the unknown, we just do not like not knowing when it will go out.
Any other forums with a bunch of threads about broken chains? It was crappy chains sourced by BMW. BMW can screw up a chain.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:22 AM   #40
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I thought that this post was about helping Nitrox32 diagnose his problem ?? I would suggest that you pull the caliper and/or brake pads and see if that changes things. A rotor that is just barely warped will cause the wheel very hard to turn by hand. Please let us know what you find.....
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:11 AM   #41
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I thought that this post was about helping Nitrox32 diagnose his problem ?? I would suggest that you pull the caliper and/or brake pads and see if that changes things. A rotor that is just barely warped will cause the wheel very hard to turn by hand. Please let us know what you find.....
, and the sensor. With nothing but a shaft and FD connected, if the noise is still there it will be obvious what needs to be done. No speculation, simple diagnosis.

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Old 01-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by OkieTom View Post
I thought that this post was about helping Nitrox32 diagnose his problem ?? I would suggest that you pull the caliper and/or brake pads and see if that changes things. A rotor that is just barely warped will cause the wheel very hard to turn by hand. Please let us know what you find.....
This is as i suggested 7 days ago, before this thread degenerated. Doesn't take 7 days to remove a caliper, i can do it in under 5 days.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:03 PM   #43
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Doesn't take 7 days to remove a caliper, i can do it in under 5 days.
Hell, I can take a caliper off AND reinstall it over a long weekend.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:33 PM   #44
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I had taken off the caliper still would not spin freely. I drop it off at the dealer on Friday. I got a message today that the ujoint was frozen. A new drive shaft was ordered.
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