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Old 01-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #5686
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Think I might be taking tomorrow off work, so I'll be looking to push it a little bit tomorrow too, and maybe if I dont feel so much like it, I wont

Goodnight and rest up guys, going to be a long one for some,

Been great following along.

Cheers

J
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:13 PM   #5687
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
Not caught up all the way but wanted to throw some input here.

Over the course of the stage, there are often on the order of 30 waypoints, between speed zone entrance and exits, WPM, WPS, DSS, ASS, etc. The GPS records mileage as covered on the ground, UNTIL you collect one of those 30 waypoints, at which point it sets itself correctly to the roadbook.

So, the advantage of the GPS odo is that it automatically corrects itself. I found myself using it more and more heavily as the rally progressed.

The drawback is that you can't increment or decrement it if you get lost... but the need to do so is mostly obviated by the auto correct function.

A few car navigators I spoke with indicated using the GPS odo more or less exclusively.
Brilliant. Thanks for the explanation!


And Troy, you're right on, as usual.


Night again, all.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:17 PM   #5688
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Brilliant. Thanks for the explanation!


And Troy, you're right on, as usual.


Night again, all.
+1

Turning in shortly as well. Another long day tomorrow.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:20 PM   #5689
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
There was only ever one Andy Caldecott, just as there was only ever one Elmer Symonds, one Richard Sainct, one Fabrizio Meoni... or in fact one of all of us. In some bizzare way, this seemingly cold, sterile web based forum, brings folks from all corners of the globe and allows us to bitch, whinge, bicker, cry, laugh and rejoice together... all at the same time.

and I for one am proud and priveliged to say, that it's a buzz to be a part of.
What a great post. Thanks!

It was 6 years ago today for Elmer. I'm glad you mentioned his name, been thinking about him all day.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:25 PM   #5690
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After just watching France 4 Stage 5, man I have to echo the praises for that broadcast and their earlier ones. All their reporters really get it and are excited. Their coverage is more gritty, less formal and friggin' amazing. The helicopter footage is spectacular and they show local color in a non-obnoxious way that gives you a decent feel for where they are . My French is coming back from my youth and I can get 80+% of what's being said. Some of the French dudes speak so fast or with local argot that I have a hard time tracking them, but it's fun to try.

Those fesh fesh roads looked REALLY nasty today, still vehicles out there I hear.

What does amaze me even more than the last few years is the sheer number of spectators EVERYWHERE!! With so many helicopters and millions of smartphones snapping pics, twittering, txting, and video from what seems like almost every turn, the rally doesn't seems as remote as the African ones were... but it's sure great for us F5'ers!

I see the F5irehose is slowing down for the bivvy night and the talk of early F5 days. I remember those well and it's been fun to watch the F5 evolution into the incredible info and insight machine it is today.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:30 PM   #5691
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
I had the privellige of talking with Ned during last years rally, together with PackMule, prior to one of his RallyRadio call in's.
awww, thanks!

I get a lot of messages from people thinking about Dakar, and to me, the thing that separates them into two groups is not skill or fitness or budget or etc. It's whether they love getting on their motorbike and riding it all day and exploring challenging terrain, or whether they want to have done Dakar.

Lyndon (and Kevin) are in the former group. The folks who are bucket-listing (my verb for the second group) seem to me not only to be missing some of the joy of it, but also setting themselves up for failure.

I was really lucky to get to go do it, it was exactly what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be. From my perspective, I appreciate the compliments, but they feel undeserved insofar as I was selfishly enjoying myself.

Work ethic, HA!
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:31 PM   #5692
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Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
After just watching France 4 Stage 5, man I have to echo the praises for that broadcast and their earlier ones. All their reporters really get it and are excited. Their coverage is more gritty, less formal and friggin' amazing. The helicopter footage is spectacular and they show local color in a non-obnoxious way that gives you a decent feel for where they are . My French is coming back from my youth and I can get 80+% of what's being said. Some of the French dudes speak so fast or with local argot that I have a hard time tracking them, but it's fun to try.

Those fesh fesh roads looked REALLY nasty today, still vehicles out there I hear.

What does amaze me even more than the last few years is the sheer number of spectators EVERYWHERE!! With so many helicopters and millions of smartphones snapping pics, twittering, txting, and video from what seems like almost every turn, the rally doesn't seems as remote as the African ones were... but it's sure great for us F5'ers!

I see the F5irehose is slowing down for the bivvy night and the talk of early F5 days. I remember those well and it's been fun to watch the F5 evolution into the incredible info and insight machine it is today.
+1 except on the French bit. Cyborg, youre going to have to help with some of it mate

Im also off to sleep now, nighty nite.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:40 PM   #5693
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Those fesh fesh roads looked REALLY nasty today, still vehicles out there I hear.
OK, one last post, sorry for piecemealing them, not trying to climb the leaderboard here.

The pics that I saw from today's stage seemed very familiar, not saying we were there, but it sure looked like what I remember. Assuming that's the case, there is some absolute dogshit riding coming along to compliment today's serving of it. What is coming is not necessarily particularly challenging technically, but it's also not technically pleasurable.

For miles, the roads are covered in silt, sometimes shallow, sometimes deeper. The silt is totally without form, it just covers what is beneath and obscures it from view. Unlike sand, it doesn't seem to have any density, it just melts around your tire.

In Baja, what lies beneath is typically ruts, but not here. In Chile, it is rocks, and you are riding along just waiting for the hidden rock to kick you. Imagine riding across a dirt parking lot that has baseball -> watermelon sized rocks strewn about, and you have a blindfold on. You wind up just bracing yourself for the next impact, unsure when it will come, and hoping that the interval from one unexpected hit to the next is long enough to get the bike collected. The reality of the hits is generally not as bad as the anticipation of them, if that makes sense.

I started calling Chile "the land of hidden surprises", that isn't meant as a compliment.

Lyndon and I share taste in trails pretty closely, so I feel a reasonable degree of confidence in predicting that his least favorite riding will be the next few days, and his most favorite will be in Argentina. Obviously, I have no perspective as they go further South into Chile, maybe that part will be strawberry shortcake land... but I doubt it!
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:43 PM   #5694
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Originally Posted by neduro View Post
I was really lucky to get to go do it, it was exactly what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be. From my perspective, I appreciate the compliments, but they feel undeserved insofar as I was selfishly enjoying myself.
Work ethic, HA!
That's sure how it sounded to us Ned, when we heard your call-ins, and how similar Pyndon's call-in's are. Awesome attitude! Having a blast on probably worlds longest and fastest trailride!

I would love to ride the Dakar route but NOT at Dakar pressure.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:43 PM   #5695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
"A lot of people enter the Dakar with the expressed goal of finishing... and then (somewhere along the journey) they get caught up in racing the Dakar" (and thatäs how it ends for them).

That struck a chord... probably the single most profound comment/statement I have ever seen read or heard, with respect to the "everyday joe" approach to rallyings everest.
I remember the statement and it rung true. Reading it again today makes me think of Robby G. I have no idea what his goals were in 2005 when he joined the VW team, probably higher than just finishing given his stage wins and overall placement. Regardless, every day Joe does come to mind watching him laugh and play with the local kids and the little remote control Hummer. The end result of getting caught up in the racing holds true in this case. Whether you're a hater or fan boy you have to admit next year will be less colorful without the rivalry he injects into rally.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:47 PM   #5696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyborg View Post
..
I would love to ride the Dakar route but NOT at Dakar pressure.
It's unlikely I will get to compete in Dakar so that's what I went for.

As much as I love the terrain I rode in N. Chile and N. Argentine I absolutely long for the day Dakar goes to Bolivia, there's no other place like it in S. America or the world afaic. Volcanoes, salt beds, sand, silt and at 13K+ feet! Some day..

On another note this pic is a great expression of the Dakar experience for me.

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:00 PM   #5697
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When I got oil from a spectator on Day 7, I chose the car with the most hot babes around it. And it was a debate, which one to choose! South America definitely has it all over Africa in that very important respect!

And that reminds me, I wanted to add a note about outside assistance.

From a rulebook perspective, it is very hard to legislate the difference between the mustachioed man, ie a team member in a non-assistance zone, and a random stranger along the course.

The top teams do have "ghost cars" full of parts and expertise, cars that are not entered in the race and are not legal. This is what the rules against assistance are trying to address, at least somewhat unsuccessfully I would add.

Since the very first editions in Africa, stories of resourceful entrants doing whatever it took to continue are legendary. I do not believe the ASO wants to end this practice, it is part of the adventure of the event. But they need something on the books to deal with the mustachioed man... and how do you define him differently to a fisherman loaning a competitor some bailing wire? It's a bit different to a "fisherman" loaning a competitor the exact billet carbon fiber part that he needs...

Along these same lines, I was also very concerned about carrying an iPhone, as there are numerous rules against having a gps, etc. I asked at scrutineering, and they said it was no problem at all, after all, it didn't have the route in it so it wouldn't do me any good.

My experience was that the ASO are trying to enforce the intent of the rulebook, which is that competitors are on an individual adventure and challenge, not the letter. Which is worth keeping in mind when watching the coverage.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:18 PM   #5698
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From a rulebook perspective, it is very hard to legislate the difference between the mustachioed man, ie a team member in a non-assistance zone, and a random stranger along the course.
it's actually not that difficult Ned... by incorporating a couple of sentences into the rules governing outside assistance, the key words being; pre-arranged, by proir arrangement and/or pre-meditated... the intent being that any team who sets out to circumvent the outside servicing regulations, is guilty of a breach of the rules. Wether you use it or not is irrelevant.

You are quite right... there IS a big difference between a rider plugging away in the rear third of the field, who fenegles a few liters of fuel from a moped riding fisherman, on the off chance that he stumbles across such an individual while he is lost for the umpteenh time on that particular leg/stage. Or for that matter a car driver who having tore the front radiator support panel out of the front of the car in a nasty sand gully, fixes it using bailing wire and a stick welder procured from a defunkt roadside workshed in some godforsaken desert shanty town.

On the Oz Safari this is referred to as "living off the land"... and while it is not ENCOURAGED... it is not penalized either...

BUT it IS significantly different to the mustached homre getting around the course (and seen repeatedly over several different stages) in a plain clothed Toyota landcruiser, coincidentally loaded smock full of KTM 690 Rallye parts, wheels and accessories.

The charm of rally competitors finding "creative" ways to keep themselves in the race is as old as the DAKAR itself... and that should continue... but not at the expense of the rules developing into a free for all, of unregistered clandestine service vehicles all over the show.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #5699
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Talking about assistance, it seems that due to the change in this race there is a lack of will to assist cross teams. something like an over competitive enduro like behaviour borderline MX ride over someone... or am i just hallucinating over caffeine?
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #5700
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
it's actually not that difficult Ned... by incorporating a couple of sentences into the rules governing outside assistance, the key words being; pre-arranged, by proir arrangement and/or pre-meditated... the intent being that any team who sets out to circumvent the outside servicing regulations, is guilty of a breach of the rules. Wether you use it or not is irrelevant.

You are quite right... there IS a big difference between a rider plugging away in the rear third of the field, who fenegles a few liters of fuel from a moped riding fisherman, on the off chance that he stumbles across such an individual while he is lost for the umpteenh time on that particular leg/stage. Or for that matter a car driver who having tore the front radiator support panel out of the front of the car in a nasty sand gully, fixes it using bailing wire and a stick welder procured from a defunkt roadside workshed in some godforsaken desert shanty town.

On the Oz Safari this is referred to as "living off the land"... and while it is not ENCOURAGED... it is not penalized either...

BUT it IS significantly different to the mustached homre getting around the course (and seen repeatedly over several different stages) in a plain clothed Toyota landcruiser, coincidentally loaded smock full of KTM 690 Rallye parts, wheels and accessories.

The charm of rally competitors finding "creative" ways to keep themselves in the race is as old as the DAKAR itself... and that should continue... but not at the expense of the rules developing into a free for all, of unregistered clandestine service vehicles all over the show.
Or, they could do like the SCCA does, if it's not IN the rule book it's illegal. They have no grey areas..
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