Winston's Memoirs - Page 2

trustme · 12-16-2012, 12:48 AM

Yup , new 5th. The old set were through the hardening. A new AP caliper is on the way for the second disc. I'm not great on brakes either but it used to get pretty squirrely [ is that a word ] when hard on the brakes into the hairpin at HD. A fork brace is in order as well so I'll chase up your BFTP engineer mate. Tim at British Spares tells me there is a kiwi bloke developing new internals for Trump forks, adjustable comp damping on one side rebound on the other, still a few months away.
Twin discs, I'll have brakes for Africa . There will be no stopping me now

trustme · 12-16-2012, 11:46 AM

The last time Winston will look like this, & no clip ons are not coming

In we go

Cross hatching still visible

Running a bit rich especially on the left , look closely at the valves

Oh Oh. Valves have been having a secret rendezvous with pistons

I don't think the valves are too bad, filled the ports up with Kero & they did not leak

Primary drive

Avert your eyes, this is ugly

Winston had developed a serious oil leak. something even a Triumph would be proud of. Finally found it after the BS weekend at HD. The swing arm boss had cracked on the frame spine tube so there was a constant weep. The welder had a crack at it but it was too awkward with the motor in . I applied plastic metal, radiator metal stuff, silicone & black paint to cover my sins, worked well enough for Manfield

Off it comes , sorry crap photo

Voltaire · 12-16-2012, 01:02 PM

Could you not ditch the Oil in Frame tank and fit a separate one where the battery lives? Interesting thats its running rich, thats apparently reduces power...... runs cooler though....

You'll need to break out the solder for doing a piston/valve check on assembly..... won't it be more kissy with your new pistons?

trustme · 12-16-2012, 01:15 PM

If you have a careful look at the pistons in the bores you will see they are like a cock in a sock. Pistons measured 76.35mm & barrels 76.7mm. .Clearance of 0.35mm when it should be 0.127 , could that piston be flailing around in there so clearance goes out the window. Buggered if I know. The head man is checking his settings.

motu · 12-16-2012, 10:33 PM

With 3 keyway camgears you could retard the inlet timing a tad...later closing could give some more top end. Do you still run the breather into the primary case ? I guess the plastic belt must be able to handle the oil....

innathyzit · 12-16-2012, 10:54 PM

Cut out some emery paper the same diameter of your valves and superglue it to the top of the valve head.

Install barrell and pistons and bring the pistons up to TDC.

Slip valves into guides with the sandpaer on them, but do not fit springs.

Install head and slightly tighten down.

Get electric or air drill and put the protruding valve stem in the chuck and and slowly bear down on top of the piston with drill on a slowish speed to cut valve reliefs on pistons.

Be careful it works surprisingly well and you don't wanna take too much out of the piston.

Mark_S · 12-17-2012, 12:19 AM

wouldnt just be caused by slightly soft valve springs would it?

trustme · 12-17-2012, 12:53 AM

Hi Motu Hi Inathzzz
Thanks a lot for your input & I'm sure I will need more advice but the plot thickens so maybe we will wait a bit before deciding what to do.

BUDGET WOT BUDGET or how a simple low cost mod turns into a minefield

I figured that I would buy a set of hi comp pistons to suit the existing bore, There was bugger all wear , hone marks still there , easy peasy.

The bore size did not make sense , it sat somewhere between 20 & 40'. Tim at british spares had nothing to suit so he suggested I try MAP Cycles
[ www.mapcycle.com ] in the US. Marino , my new second best friend could make no sense of it either. Upshot of all this

1/ Rebore to 40 thou , max oversize, risk of distorted barrels, have to make a torque plate before reboring to stop distortion, barrels not strong very
2/ Resleeve the barrels to std , spendy but problem solved.
3/ Buy new barrels, over $ 1000 when you include new pistons
4/ Do a long rod conversion
New alloy nikasil barrel
forged pistons 10.5 / 1
billet rods longer than standard for more punch out of corners
longer push rods
new push rod tubes
alloy tappet nuts
alloy clutch plate\

You know what I did

. I was in too far so I figured I might as well do it once & do it right. I did baulk at the billet crank
The bits are ordered , hopefully the rods ,pistons arrive first so I can get it dynamically balanced to 76% then put the bottom end back together prior to the barrels arriving in 4 weeks. HD on the 7th Feb will be a close run thing

Mean time back at the ranch

The welder & I spent quite some time pressurising the frame & splashing soapy water around looking for bubbles before we were satisfied we had all the leaks. The factory welding was not brilliant

Before

After

I'll do a better a better paint job later ! Yeah right

Twin discs fitted

I will clean up the over spray, no really , I will

trustme · 12-17-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_S

wouldnt just be caused by slightly soft valve springs would it?

Flash brand new Kibblewhite valve springs so I think that is unlikely. we'll check
All the valves , springs , guides & seats are new & pretty good stuff.

Padmei · 12-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Interesting stuff trusty. Wish I could offer up some advice but i'm still sulking since the war

trustme · 01-09-2013, 11:48 PM

Hurry up & wait

Bugger all progress, the wheels are back on , the new RH fork leg is fitted but I am still waiting for the new caliper supposed to be here any day

The motor is a whole different can of worms. Mr MAP sent an email just after xmas, the pistons he had for me were sold by one of his staff so new pistons are 3/4 weeks away, barrel is at the nikasil man . There was an alternative but it would require a bit of machining & the motor would be good for little but racing, with all the shagging around it was probably not going to be much quicker than waiting for the replacement pistons
I've asked them to send everything they can so I can make a start, hopefully stuff will arrive in the next week or so.

Can't see me getting to the festival of speed, can't see the point in putting it back together to pull it down again, it was going to be tight but doable , not very likely now.

Very frustrating

trustme · 02-10-2013, 12:30 AM

The day before racing & finally the first instalment of bling arrives, not much really but at least I can do a bit now.

Breather kit

I can now drill the front of the crank case & tap for the fitting . I could use the timing plug at the rear of the crankcase & save drilling but the crank rotation kicks oil up the breather pipe, not ideal

Spoofy Alloy Pressure Plate

I can now shorten the clutch push rod & reharden

Bearings

Cam , mains & big ends, athough only 1 x main, I'll source the other locally.

Stuff

Including alloy tappet lock nuts, lighter , more revs doncha know.

Pushrods

I had just put in a set of 750 rods but they are too short for the new barrel, rats !!

Catch bottle

I scoured the camping stores for the right one , in the end my better half found some thing close in a book shop. I have no idea why I did not think of that, Rubbed the blue coating off , drilled holes & coated with POR15 clear coat. You do dumb stuff like that when waiting for parts.

Still no caliper that would be here by Xmas, Barrels are being coated, pistons are being machined , rods, had too upgrade, Some numpty in the US had a problem with the original rods I ordered, they are sure it is operator error but were reluctant to send them until it was all checked out, so they talked me into a new flasher more up spec version,. More money of course but I am getting a good deal on them

It aint much but it is progress

motu · 02-10-2013, 02:16 AM

Wow,nice stuff - I could've bought a nice car with what you spent there. I converted the R65 to open breather today. What do you want the reed valve for ? Triumph got rid of the timed breather in the early '70's and used the chaincase as a breathing chamber. Oh yeah, duh - belt drive primary. The BMW has a reed valve, I'm just using a road tube...I don't like my engines to consume their own waste products.

trustme · 02-10-2013, 09:29 PM

You are right , costs have got out of hand. I could bugger about & be frustrated with progress or I can spend some pingers up front & build a nice strong reliable motor , still not super powerful but with an ounce of luck it will hold together.

Voltaire · 02-10-2013, 10:49 PM

The two Englander bikes I did battle with at the back of the grid were 650 Triumphs.....you can see one that Bender put up with smoke coming from it.....is it normal mit der English bikes to take the gearbox apart at a race meet?

Looks like yours will be a strong one when its back together.

The Kapiti lads had a good day but they went down on a oil slick ( not mine as I confessed as was in the clear)...
They got it going with begged bits.

12-16-2012, 12:48 AM	#16
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	Yup , new 5th. The old set were through the hardening. A new AP caliper is on the way for the second disc. I'm not great on brakes either but it used to get pretty squirrely [ is that a word ] when hard on the brakes into the hairpin at HD. A fork brace is in order as well so I'll chase up your BFTP engineer mate. Tim at British Spares tells me there is a kiwi bloke developing new internals for Trump forks, adjustable comp damping on one side rebound on the other, still a few months away. Twin discs, I'll have brakes for Africa . There will be no stopping me now trustme screwed with this post 12-16-2012 at 01:00 AM

12-17-2012, 12:19 AM	#22
Mark_S Fair Weather Faggot Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Kapiti NZ Oddometer: 1,287	wouldnt just be caused by slightly soft valve springs would it? __________________ These are the best days

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12-16-2012, 11:46 AM	#17
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	The last time Winston will look like this, & no clip ons are not coming In we go Cross hatching still visible Running a bit rich especially on the left , look closely at the valves Oh Oh. Valves have been having a secret rendezvous with pistons I don't think the valves are too bad, filled the ports up with Kero & they did not leak Primary drive Avert your eyes, this is ugly Winston had developed a serious oil leak. something even a Triumph would be proud of. Finally found it after the BS weekend at HD. The swing arm boss had cracked on the frame spine tube so there was a constant weep. The welder had a crack at it but it was too awkward with the motor in . I applied plastic metal, radiator metal stuff, silicone & black paint to cover my sins, worked well enough for Manfield Off it comes , sorry crap photo

12-16-2012, 01:02 PM	#18
Voltaire Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Oddometer: 720	Could you not ditch the Oil in Frame tank and fit a separate one where the battery lives? Interesting thats its running rich, thats apparently reduces power...... runs cooler though.... You'll need to break out the solder for doing a piston/valve check on assembly..... won't it be more kissy with your new pistons?

12-16-2012, 01:15 PM	#19
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	If you have a careful look at the pistons in the bores you will see they are like a cock in a sock. Pistons measured 76.35mm & barrels 76.7mm. .Clearance of 0.35mm when it should be 0.127 , could that piston be flailing around in there so clearance goes out the window. Buggered if I know. The head man is checking his settings.

12-16-2012, 10:33 PM	#20
motu Loose Pre Unit Joined: Dec 2001 Location: New Zealand Oddometer: 3,954	With 3 keyway camgears you could retard the inlet timing a tad...later closing could give some more top end. Do you still run the breather into the primary case ? I guess the plastic belt must be able to handle the oil....

12-16-2012, 10:54 PM	#21
innathyzit AKA Woodman Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Nelson NZ Oddometer: 465	Cut out some emery paper the same diameter of your valves and superglue it to the top of the valve head. Install barrell and pistons and bring the pistons up to TDC. Slip valves into guides with the sandpaer on them, but do not fit springs. Install head and slightly tighten down. Get electric or air drill and put the protruding valve stem in the chuck and and slowly bear down on top of the piston with drill on a slowish speed to cut valve reliefs on pistons. Be careful it works surprisingly well and you don't wanna take too much out of the piston.

12-17-2012, 12:53 AM	#23
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	Hi Motu Hi Inathzzz Thanks a lot for your input & I'm sure I will need more advice but the plot thickens so maybe we will wait a bit before deciding what to do. BUDGET WOT BUDGET or how a simple low cost mod turns into a minefield I figured that I would buy a set of hi comp pistons to suit the existing bore, There was bugger all wear , hone marks still there , easy peasy. The bore size did not make sense , it sat somewhere between 20 & 40'. Tim at british spares had nothing to suit so he suggested I try MAP Cycles [ www.mapcycle.com ] in the US. Marino , my new second best friend could make no sense of it either. Upshot of all this 1/ Rebore to 40 thou , max oversize, risk of distorted barrels, have to make a torque plate before reboring to stop distortion, barrels not strong very 2/ Resleeve the barrels to std , spendy but problem solved. 3/ Buy new barrels, over $ 1000 when you include new pistons 4/ Do a long rod conversion New alloy nikasil barrel forged pistons 10.5 / 1 billet rods longer than standard for more punch out of corners longer push rods new push rod tubes alloy tappet nuts alloy clutch plate\ You know what I did . I was in too far so I figured I might as well do it once & do it right. I did baulk at the billet crank The bits are ordered , hopefully the rods ,pistons arrive first so I can get it dynamically balanced to 76% then put the bottom end back together prior to the barrels arriving in 4 weeks. HD on the 7th Feb will be a close run thing Mean time back at the ranch The welder & I spent quite some time pressurising the frame & splashing soapy water around looking for bubbles before we were satisfied we had all the leaks. The factory welding was not brilliant Before After I'll do a better a better paint job later ! Yeah right Twin discs fitted I will clean up the over spray, no really , I will

12-17-2012, 11:39 AM	#25
Padmei enamoured Joined: Mar 2008 Location: Nelson New Zealand Oddometer: 2,498	Interesting stuff trusty. Wish I could offer up some advice but i'm still sulking since the war

01-09-2013, 11:48 PM	#26
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	Hurry up & wait Bugger all progress, the wheels are back on , the new RH fork leg is fitted but I am still waiting for the new caliper supposed to be here any day The motor is a whole different can of worms. Mr MAP sent an email just after xmas, the pistons he had for me were sold by one of his staff so new pistons are 3/4 weeks away, barrel is at the nikasil man . There was an alternative but it would require a bit of machining & the motor would be good for little but racing, with all the shagging around it was probably not going to be much quicker than waiting for the replacement pistons I've asked them to send everything they can so I can make a start, hopefully stuff will arrive in the next week or so. Can't see me getting to the festival of speed, can't see the point in putting it back together to pull it down again, it was going to be tight but doable , not very likely now. Very frustrating

02-10-2013, 12:30 AM	#27
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	The day before racing & finally the first instalment of bling arrives, not much really but at least I can do a bit now. Breather kit I can now drill the front of the crank case & tap for the fitting . I could use the timing plug at the rear of the crankcase & save drilling but the crank rotation kicks oil up the breather pipe, not ideal Spoofy Alloy Pressure Plate I can now shorten the clutch push rod & reharden Bearings Cam , mains & big ends, athough only 1 x main, I'll source the other locally. Stuff Including alloy tappet lock nuts, lighter , more revs doncha know. Pushrods I had just put in a set of 750 rods but they are too short for the new barrel, rats !! Catch bottle I scoured the camping stores for the right one , in the end my better half found some thing close in a book shop. I have no idea why I did not think of that, Rubbed the blue coating off , drilled holes & coated with POR15 clear coat. You do dumb stuff like that when waiting for parts. Still no caliper that would be here by Xmas, Barrels are being coated, pistons are being machined , rods, had too upgrade, Some numpty in the US had a problem with the original rods I ordered, they are sure it is operator error but were reluctant to send them until it was all checked out, so they talked me into a new flasher more up spec version,. More money of course but I am getting a good deal on them It aint much but it is progress

02-10-2013, 02:16 AM	#28
motu Loose Pre Unit Joined: Dec 2001 Location: New Zealand Oddometer: 3,954	Wow,nice stuff - I could've bought a nice car with what you spent there. I converted the R65 to open breather today. What do you want the reed valve for ? Triumph got rid of the timed breather in the early '70's and used the chaincase as a breathing chamber. Oh yeah, duh - belt drive primary. The BMW has a reed valve, I'm just using a road tube...I don't like my engines to consume their own waste products.

02-10-2013, 09:29 PM	#29
trustme ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Auckland , New Zealand Oddometer: 805	You are right , costs have got out of hand. I could bugger about & be frustrated with progress or I can spend some pingers up front & build a nice strong reliable motor , still not super powerful but with an ounce of luck it will hold together.

02-10-2013, 10:49 PM	#30
Voltaire Studly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand Oddometer: 720	The two Englander bikes I did battle with at the back of the grid were 650 Triumphs.....you can see one that Bender put up with smoke coming from it.....is it normal mit der English bikes to take the gearbox apart at a race meet? Looks like yours will be a strong one when its back together. The Kapiti lads had a good day but they went down on a oil slick ( not mine as I confessed as was in the clear)... They got it going with begged bits.