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Old 01-09-2013, 02:30 PM   #406
amanlikemike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinevalley View Post
My experience has been the same as well. I also find the Overlander easier to load/unload than the GL on the bike as well.

In addition, the ability to also place wet/dirty items outside of the waterproof liner further enhances the functionality. Placing a soaking wet tent inside the GL tended to make everything in the bag damp.
Nice one, pinevalley.

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Old 01-09-2013, 08:05 PM   #407
Droptarotter
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After reading some of the comments, I decided I needed a little more room to sit and moved the bags farther to the rear.
Not quite finalized yet, but by moving the top rear mounts bag that moved the over the seat strap 5" farther back on the seat giving me more room to move around.










I'm going to install the Rack Loops where I had originally put them on the rear rack mount and that will tidy things up a bit.

Team ftb, the bags are easy to install and move to a desired location. Your post made me rethink where I had mine mounted and by adjusting a few of the strap locations you can get most of the seat to place your butt on.

The only thing I am not too happy about is how the over seat strap compresses my new seat. Mike, any suggestions as to how to avoid that???

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:10 AM   #408
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Mike. I'd do this over the phone but I'm in Asia currently (but back to the states in a few weeks for holiday) so here it goes in the thread. After reading through the full thread I can say one thing with certainty, Amanlikemile has got to be one of the most thorough, responsive, and helpful vendors I've seen. Sadly something not seen all too often in this day and age. Fantastic job Mike.

Thank you for the response on my questions. I'm beginning to understand the mounting procedure. Does anyone have a picture showing a closeup of the mount and how the bag fastens to the frame? Am I having to undo webbing from around the frame every time I mount and dismount the bags? Or is a hook simply hooked into a webbing daisy chain ladder that stays with the bike when removed?

Are there any pics detailing the 15L bags? I searched the thread and website but found nothing that detail how the bag operates. I assume there is a waterproof liner inside the outside shell is this correct? If so then are both the liner and shell roll top closures? Or is the bag itself waterproof requiring only one roll top closure to access inside the bag? Traveltoad mentioned it is easier to access items in this bag set-up than the GL, the Kreiga bag shape is definitely more user friendly for packing but not so sure on accessing. I keep all my heavy items (tools for tires and wrenching, tubes, etc.) in the very bottom of the GL to keep the weight low. When needing to access tools in the GL I simply loosen the compression buckle, rotate both zippers to where my tool stash is, spread the zippers about 10 inches and pull what I need out (tools are packed next to the zipper for easy access). When finished shove it back in the hole. Worst case is i have to create a bit of a hole with my hands when putting it back but its only soft items above the tools (clothes, hammock) so creating the hole is a non issue. If accessing my tools in the bottom of the Kreiga bag I have to undo one (or two?) roll top closures, then empty the bag to access items on the bottom, then load the bag up again, and refasten the roll top closure(s). Seems a bit longer in my eyes, but not a deal breaker.

Pic from the Kreiga website



Are the unused rack loops available to fasten my tools in a separate bag? If so can the rear most rack loops be utilized to fasten both the Overlander and a US 5 or 10 Kreiga bag to stash my tools?

Mike you mentioned that the WR-R picture has the bags mounted waaay forward. In the pic above is that as far back as I can mount the bags safely without worry about them contacting the exhaust, bike dependent of course (ill be on a KTM 500)? The buckle on the seat is right where I put my derrière for slab droning. My trips are not only an overnighter where I could deal with it better but usually up to a couple weeks once a month, with the longest trip one month and that buckle location seems a major drawback for the well being of my arse.

Thanks again for the diligence.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #409
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Had time to rethink my mounts and found a hole already in the fender/subframe, so I installed the Rack Loops there..........





With the rack in the way, it's not so easy to tighten the rear strap, so a nice zip tie to the rescue!!





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Old 01-10-2013, 08:35 PM   #410
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Hey Droptrotter - That mount looks a lot better in getting the darn strap farther back. Any chance of getting a side shot pic of the set-up with the new mounting location from the exhaust side?

On bikes with comfy large seats (larger ADV bikes) I can understand not needing the full length of the seat as an option to find comfort. However on the Enduro style of bikes that these bags were designed for I find myself using the full length of the seat during long seated sessions to remain comfortable. Even a widened and extra padding in my KTM seat I use the whole thing and more and hence why I have concern with the strap location.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:02 AM   #411
traveltoad
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ftb... with the Coyote, didn't the bag cover the rear portion of the seat anyway?
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:23 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Hey Droptrotter - That mount looks a lot better in getting the darn strap farther back. Any chance of getting a side shot pic of the set-up with the new mounting location from the exhaust side?

On bikes with comfy large seats (larger ADV bikes) I can understand not needing the full length of the seat as an option to find comfort. However on the Enduro style of bikes that these bags were designed for I find myself using the full length of the seat during long seated sessions to remain comfortable. Even a widened and extra padding in my KTM seat I use the whole thing and more and hence why I have concern with the strap location.
ftb;
Look at Traveltoads post #158........that might give you something to go on.
If you give me a few days, I can get photo's of the 640 and my 520 with both the Kreiga and a Coyote mounted.


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Old 01-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #413
pinevalley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb View Post
Mike. I'd do this over the phone but I'm in Asia currently (but back to the states in a few weeks for holiday) so here it goes in the thread. After reading through the full thread I can say one thing with certainty, Amanlikemile has got to be one of the most thorough, responsive, and helpful vendors I've seen. Sadly something not seen all too often in this day and age. Fantastic job Mike.

Thank you for the response on my questions. I'm beginning to understand the mounting procedure. Does anyone have a picture showing a closeup of the mount and how the bag fastens to the frame? Am I having to undo webbing from around the frame every time I mount and dismount the bags? Or is a hook simply hooked into a webbing daisy chain ladder that stays with the bike when removed?

Are there any pics detailing the 15L bags? I searched the thread and website but found nothing that detail how the bag operates. I assume there is a waterproof liner inside the outside shell is this correct? If so then are both the liner and shell roll top closures? Or is the bag itself waterproof requiring only one roll top closure to access inside the bag? Traveltoad mentioned it is easier to access items in this bag set-up than the GL, the Kreiga bag shape is definitely more user friendly for packing but not so sure on accessing. I keep all my heavy items (tools for tires and wrenching, tubes, etc.) in the very bottom of the GL to keep the weight low. When needing to access tools in the GL I simply loosen the compression buckle, rotate both zippers to where my tool stash is, spread the zippers about 10 inches and pull what I need out (tools are packed next to the zipper for easy access). When finished shove it back in the hole. Worst case is i have to create a bit of a hole with my hands when putting it back but its only soft items above the tools (clothes, hammock) so creating the hole is a non issue. If accessing my tools in the bottom of the Kreiga bag I have to undo one (or two?) roll top closures, then empty the bag to access items on the bottom, then load the bag up again, and refasten the roll top closure(s). Seems a bit longer in my eyes, but not a deal breaker.

Pic from the Kreiga website



Are the unused rack loops available to fasten my tools in a separate bag? If so can the rear most rack loops be utilized to fasten both the Overlander and a US 5 or 10 Kreiga bag to stash my tools?

Mike you mentioned that the WR-R picture has the bags mounted waaay forward. In the pic above is that as far back as I can mount the bags safely without worry about them contacting the exhaust, bike dependent of course (ill be on a KTM 500)? The buckle on the seat is right where I put my derrière for slab droning. My trips are not only an overnighter where I could deal with it better but usually up to a couple weeks once a month, with the longest trip one month and that buckle location seems a major drawback for the well being of my arse.

Thanks again for the diligence.
FTB –

Regarding your question about “how the bag fastens to the frame?”: The daisy chain loop wraps around the frame just like the GL. It utilizes a hook (and daisy chain) instead of the cam buckle. I had the GL on my Berg and KTM EXC wrapped them around the frame in the same spot. I wrap the Kreiga around the Berg frame (had sold the KTM) in the same spot as the GL. Just like the GL – the webbing is removed when removing the bags. I’m sure something could be rigged up so you would not need to loop it around the frame.

Regarding your question about the waterproof liner set up: Imagine the bag as a typical roll top closure. There is a inner liner (white, waterproof) and the outer shell. The white liner and the outer shell are only attached at the top – with Velcro (360 deg.). To close, you roll them together. I can relate to the scenario about removing tools from the GL. I had mine placed there was well. With the Kreiga I put tools/spareparts/kitchen/tent in one side and removed the liner completely as I was not concerned about waterproofing those items. I just dug in the bag. In the other side I placed my food at the bottom of the bag outside of the white liner.

Regarding you question about stashing US5/US10 on the back – that is what I do. I had this set up with the GL as well.

I’ll see if I can grab some photos.

I can’t say that one bag would be better than the other to dig stuff out of. I find the Kreiga easier to pack and find stuff. However, this is just my opinion. Just like backpacking – everyone has their preference on how to do things. And a somewhat related disclosure…I moved away from the GL not because it was not waterproof, but because I never was happy with how it packed and how high it stuck above the seat. i.e. I may be biased in answering your question.

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Old 01-11-2013, 01:29 PM   #414
traveltoad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinevalley View Post
FTB –

Regarding your question about “how the bag fastens to the frame?”: The daisy chain loop wraps around the frame just like the GL. It utilizes a hook (and daisy chain) instead of the cam buckle. I had the GL on my Berg and KTM EXC wrapped them around the frame in the same spot. I wrap the Kreiga around the Berg frame (had sold the KTM) in the same spot as the GL. Just like the GL – the webbing is removed when removing the bags. I’m sure something could be rigged up so you would not need to loop it around the frame.

Regarding your question about the waterproof liner set up: Imagine the bag as a typical roll top closure. There is a inner liner (white, waterproof) and the outer shell. The white liner and the outer shell are only attached at the top – with Velcro (360 deg.). To close, you roll them together. I can relate to the scenario about removing tools from the GL. I had mine placed there was well. With the Kreiga I put tools/spareparts/kitchen/tent in one side and removed the liner completely as I was not concerned about waterproofing those items. I just dug in the bag. In the other side I placed my food at the bottom of the bag outside of the white liner.

Regarding you question about stashing US5/US10 on the back – that is what I do. I had this set up with the GL as well.

I’ll see if I can grab some photos.

I can’t say that one bag would be better than the other to dig stuff out of. I find the Kreiga easier to pack and find stuff. However, this is just my opinion. Just like backpacking – everyone has their preference on how to do things. And a somewhat related disclosure…I moved away from the GL not because it was not waterproof, but because I never was happy with how it packed and how high it stuck above the seat. i.e. I may be biased in answering your question.

pinevalley
Yup. What he said.

And a photo of the daisy chain attachment.

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:12 PM   #415
pinevalley
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For FTB...

For FTB...

Hopefully these photos with answer some of your questions:

Bag mounted forward...one side
P1010638

Closeup of the same side
P1010639

oposite side
P1010640

another view
P1010641

top view
P1010642

Now bag(s) moved towards the rear of the bike...side shot
P1010643

top view (towards the rear)
P1010644

I'm sure you could move this further back if needed. My goal is to keep the height of the bag close to the height of the seat. For reference - I had the edge of the GL bag just cover the Berg logo on the seat.

Some details of the waterproof liner:
P1010645

Velcro detached showing access
P1010646

Same system as US-5
P1010647

mounting points for reference (I had the camera out...might as well)
P1010648

Shot of the back (have not ridden off road with the tool tube, but Cyborg has had great results)
P1010649

Photo showing how I utilized the other tie down to strap stuff to the back (figure-9 and some rope). My last trip I used this to strap down a ground tarp, trash and the US-5 (before I bolted it to the bike).
P1010650

The end...hope that helps

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Old 01-13-2013, 08:08 AM   #416
team ftb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveltoad View Post
ftb... with the Coyote, didn't the bag cover the rear portion of the seat anyway?
The way I had it mounted it covered the back two inches where the seat started curving into the end.



I could have mounted it even farther back but I was worried about the rear fender carrying the weight so wanted some on the rearmost portion of the seat. My longest trip has been a month of offroad through 3 countries and I had concerns if I mounted the GL soley on the fender (even with the black inner fender mounted for the license plate) it may fail. No idea if it would or not, just my concern.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:25 AM   #417
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Pinevalley and Traveltoad - A heartfelt thank you for taking the time to answer my posts. The pics have finally enabled my two brain cells to function properly and generate an understanding for how the system operates. A tip to Kreiga would be to utilize assume of these pics to add to your website to better fill out the function and operation methodology behind the bags for us dolts.

Since that over the seat strap is my main concern with this system....................would there be any reason why that buckle strap could not simply be replaced with two 3' straps of Velcro? This would provide the adjustment needed and yet lay flat on the seat, thus over coming the issue of the buckle inhibiting ergonomics? Not sure if this would work or not but it seems the load would be pulling in a direction that a 3" Velcro strap should endure.

Another question. Also when not fully loaded has does the system fare? I have visions of 3 feet of each strap dangling about and getting caught up everywhere.

Again thanks for the education.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:47 AM   #418
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ftb;
To answer one of your earlier questions about the time it takes to install the Overlander 30 I timed the install last night. Bags full and laying on the floor when timer started...........it took just under 2 minutes to put the bags securely on the bike.

About the over seat buckle..............I am sure that once you have the dimension of that strap that you need, you could eliminate the buckle by removing it and just have a strap. It could be a little difficult to get the proper tension of the bag by just using the rear strap though???? I don't think velcro would hold up too good???
Or you could move the buckle closer to the bag, getting it off of the seat.
When unloaded, the bags might be a little floppy. The extra strap lengths can be secured with the little strap secure thingies that Kriega supplies. I really don't think that will be an issue.

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Droptarotter screwed with this post 01-13-2013 at 11:48 AM Reason: forgot something
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:39 PM   #419
team ftb
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Thank you Droptrotter for the timed test, couldn't ask for any more insight.

The board and Vendor have been really helpful in me developing a feel for the system. So far in my mind the traits of the Kreiga system over my current Coyote:

Pro's: Waterproof (big points), more packing friendly shape of the rectangle than the odd shaped Coyote

Con's: Rear buckle interferes with seat comfort (in my eyes at least), strap intensive for compressing bags (8 total to adjust versus 4 on Coyote) that adds a bit of ergonomic complexity but may benefit with a more secure load.

My only experience with side bags was when I ran Dirt Bagz on bikes for a few years.





So I had a strap across the rear of the seat. The Dirt Bagz strap was even less intrusive than the Kriega however after sliding back and forth across the plastic buckles for a week it became annoying. I even tried to place the buckles out of the way as possible as suggested by Droptrotter, but could not get them completely out of the way.

One issue I had with the Dirt Bagz was flopping about over rough terrain.



The Dirt Bagz were secured seemingly along the same attachment point locations as the Kreiga: Over the seat srap, foremost bottom corner of the bag to the frame, and rear most high point of the bag (DB was mounted with a sleeve over a bracket mount at roughly the same point). Why would I expect the Kreigas to be that much more stable?

Again thank you for the frank discussion.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:55 AM   #420
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In terms of bag complexity, I really don't feel the Overlander30 is significantly more complex nor significantly more time consuming to use. It might seem initially to have a lot going on, but in practice (at least for me) after the first couple times using the system it was quick and easy. Don't for get that a lot of the strap options, strap length and strap adjustments are designed to make the bags useful on a varity of machines by all sorts of people with differing ideas of the "perfect" fitment. Once you have played with the bags a bit and have them right where you want them, you won't have to fiddle so much and you have the option of trimming straps if they are in the way.

You mentioned that with the Coyote you are able to access your tools from the lower parts of the bag by working the zippers around. I agree that the Coyote gives you that ability, but at the cost of having gear higher up on the bike. To use the full 30L that the Coyote has to offer you have a bunch of gear on or above seat level, the Overlander30 carries almost all of it's 30L bellow seat level. A benefit IMO. But yes, access is only from the top of the bag so things may need to come out. In many of your photos it looked like the opper portion of the Coyote was just not used, maybe to keep the seat clear? If so, I think you will find the Overlander30 allows you to carry more.

I also had DirtBagz... just erase the comparrison from your head. Both the DirtBagz and the Overlander30 are black, there is one bag on each side of the bike. That is the extent of the similarities.

To me, the only negative (for you) to the Overlander30 is the buckle that goes over the seat. It was mentioned that it could be removed and replaced with a velcro strap and while that is certainly an option; I have found the cam buckle in the seat strap to be an integral part of the Overlander30s mounting system. Once all the over straps are tight and the bags are packed I have found cranking the over the seat cam backle tight is what really keeps the system from moving around. I don't know what your options are... I tried the cam buckle under the seat and it didn't really work. As mentioned, you might be able to shorten the strap on the cam buckle leash to move it more to the side of the seat. You might be able to remount and thus move where the cam buckle seat straps mount on each of the bags.

As I type this I also think it is worth mention: As I stated above, the seat strap cam buckle gets cranked tight (at least that is how it works best for me) as the final part of making the bags secure. When the seat strap is pulled tight, the top corners of each bag are pulled together and squeeze in on the seat. Depending on where you sit, and how fat your ass is, I could see this also being a "problem". For me, if I am on the rear portion f the seat I notice the bags but they are not a problem. I had much more of an issue with the upper part of the Coyote interfering with my backpack during technical riding.

Just my 2 cents.
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