Robby Gordon 2013

[avgas]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the rest of the race is a sham. In a situation where much of the field can't pass the course it's difficult/impossible to come up with a solution that can be quickly enacted and fair to everyone. That said, the officials do seem to have their favorites...

[larryboy]

Well, that guy from Quitar was crashed out with a broken reverse gear and by the time he got pulled out the water event was over and he drove it to the F for the day. It's not a race at all, it's a dual sport event and looks like a hell of a lot of fun.

[DesertSurfer]

Every year we get to a point in the Dakar where the organizers get in over their heads... juggling the theory of their stage planning against the unforeseen. They do the best they can trying to protect those most commited to their event first, and then their priorities trickle down to the least of their concerns.

The Dakar organizers take greater national pride in their race.

Obviously Robbie Gordon does not represent a major revenue stream for the Rally, so he's the least of their (ASO) concerns. BMW/ Mini Cooper and KTM obviously are very important to them. So they are going to get "home field advantage", something we in American sports witness daily and are all too familiar with in our pro sports programs.

As long as we know what to expect from the ASO Dakar organizers, we just take their home field implimentations as "it is what it is"...

It's still great to watch Robbie outrunning huge car sponsors day in and day out and what it represents... the little guy with the big heart beating up on the big corporate guys.

There is still 6 days left in this race and anything can happen.

Don't loose the spirit of this race yet... which is that anything can happen... and usually does. And against all odds, heros are born and reborn in this race at every stage.

That holds up even against all the home field stuff...

[izom]

There is still 6 days left in this race and anything can happen

...absolutely right!!

[davesupreme]

any way around it, that decision sux!... to give everybody who didn't finish pekkerhandels' time just doesn't seem right, you might as well cancel the whole stage, but then robby loses a bit of his gain.... basically that stage was a 3 car race?.... hard decision, i guess...

what i wanna know, is why they configured his car w/the radiators way out in front like that?.... there's a pic somewhere w/his bodywork off, and those rads are out in front of the wheels w/some pretty skimpy frame around them. it seems they could put them inboard of the wheels somehow w/some ductwork and some fans, and that radiator smashing thing wouldn't have happened?.... my $.03......

[BigDoc]

Stage 9 is on Monday - Cars will begin at 8:03am/et. Robby Gordon will be the 3rd car off the line, around 8:09am/et.

[Strong Bad]

Originally Posted by DesertSurfer

Every year we get to a point in the Dakar where the organizers get in over their heads... juggling the theory of their stage planning against the unforeseen. They do the best they can trying to protect those most commited to their event first, and then their priorities trickle down to the least of their concerns.

The Dakar organizers take greater national pride in their race.

Obviously Robbie Gordon does not represent a major revenue stream for the Rally, so he's the least of their (ASO) concerns. BMW/ Mini Cooper and KTM obviously are very important to them. So they are going to get "home field advantage", something we in American sports witness daily and are all too familiar with in our pro sports programs.

As long as we know what to expect from the ASO Dakar organizers, we just take their home field implimentations as "it is what it is"...

It's still great to watch Robbie outrunning huge car sponsors day in and day out and what it represents... the little guy with the big heart beating up on the big corporate guys.

There is still 6 days left in this race and anything can happen.

Don't loose the spirit of this race yet... which is that anything can happen... and usually does. And against all odds, heros are born and reborn in this race at every stage.

That holds up even against all the home field stuff...

Well said.

Peterhansel pointed out that they are actually less than half way through the distance covered on special stages.

[UngaWunga]

Originally Posted by davesupreme

any way around it, that decision sux!... to give everybody who didn't finish pekkerhandels' time just doesn't seem right, you might as well cancel the whole stage, but then robby loses a bit of his gain.... basically that stage was a 3 car race?.... hard decision, i guess...

Well, no. It greatly benefits the 4-5 cars that did finish the stage. Their times were set, with no possibility of someone who started 6th or below from besting their time. These are staggered starts, remember. Sure, the likelihood of someone doing that from futher down the starting order is slim. But a navigation error or two and the top 4-5 can easily lose 30 minutes, allowing someone else to take the stage win. That wasn't possible when they gave everyone Peterhansel's time.

But its a huge complicated affair, and possibly the best way of handling it fairly.

[larryboy]

Originally Posted by UngaWunga

It greatly benefits the 4-5 cars that did finish the stage.

But its a huge complicated affair, and possibly the best way of handling it fairly.

I was watching the trackers yesterday and there were 9 cars that finished with times that reflected a tough hard stage, it was a slap in the face to Peterhansel to give everybody his time.

A majority of the cars and bikes that got into trouble with the water had gotten lost earlier, if they had navigated properly the flooding wouldn't have been a factor for most and they could have matched the remaining guys to say a 60th place time...not 4th...gimme a break.

[larryboy]

Just broke into the top 20, got past the Great Wall car on time or they lost time.

[bearorso]

I see a lot of similarities between Robby Gordon and Tony Alessi - I can watch a video / hear an interview with either of them, and come out thinking, either, "he's a good bloke", or, "he's a total ****wit".

So, so polarising.

Just going by what RG said in that - His - video, if there were 9 cars who got through earlier, I'd say that the rest of the field, should get a 10th placing - I've no idea of the nominal gap you'd place from the final, actual finisher. 1 minute / 10 minutes, and so on and so forth, Perhaps a mean of the time gaps added together between the first 9? Who the hell knows / could get it "right".

When you see the water coming through / up in a lot of the videos, you can certainly see that it's just a bit more than the natural disadvantage ( most of the time) competitors can have after preceding drivers have gone through ( just setting aside the "marked track" side of things that can be an advantage). Ever been in a starting to flood, dry river bed, or a further flooding river, people ? I have, and it sure as hell isn't a soothing thing to be confronted with .

We don't know - but, perhaps Nasser had got to the flooding dry river beds. That's what He said happened in an interview. Who to believe?????????????? Do they have recordable traces of the cars / bikes? - in this day and age, surely that's possible, with reasonably secure 'available only to the organisers' settings.

I'd Never take RGs word for other competitors positions / motives / etc, nor others views on His position / motives etc, and the organisers decisions. As I would Never, with regards to others opinions on anyone else. They are all going to be from their own perspectives / prejudices. You'd be a Humper, for whoever you took as being the "honest one", out of any of them.

As I said, RG, can polarise just my own opinion of him, within a few words.

Perhaps, that's the real, one great talent / one great failing he has?

The Dakar would be quite a bit less interesting, without him, with regards to the cars, that's for sure.

[avgas]

Originally Posted by larryboy

A majority of the cars and bikes that got into trouble with the water had gotten lost earlier, if they had navigated properly the flooding wouldn't have been a factor for most and they could have matched the remaining guys to say a 60th place time...not 4th...gimme a break.

But if you give all the non-finishers a slow time then what about the possible person who started way down but was on pace to do an excellent stage? Or if you just throw out the whole stage then what about the people who beat their cars/bikes up to actually finish? There's no way to be fair to everyone. Tough calls like this have to be made sometimes in the dakar, and there will always be someone who gets the short end of the stick.

I suppose you could say that the officials should never change the stages like this, but then you'd have to be prepared for the possibility of years with zero finishers. I doubt sponsors would stay in a race like that.

Anyway, time to move on and enjoy the rest of the race.

[340hp]

Originally Posted by Strong Bad

So I guess you don't realize that there is a huge amount of time to get all of the cars off the start line?? What happened was that a few cars got through the drainage and then due to thunderstorms flash floods made it impassable for everyone else. Do you want to give everyone except the few who able to cross before the flood a DNF and send them home??? Rallys commonly neutralize stages due to problems and everyone is given the same time. Oh wait....... they don't do that in Nascar do they???

So, no Racers who were stuck behind the rising water finished after the flood subsided?

( I am catching up after a weekend in the boonies)

Did the organizers stop all of the slower Racers at the waters edge to protect them or did the Racers take their chances and lose out by getting stuck? I could understand the ASO decision if the flash flood time penalty was the result of a decision to stop the Racers at the flood, but if the Racers were allowed to proceed and some succeeded then those that eventually succeeded should benefit from the effort.

It's happened before on the Baja 500 in 1990, and the Racers stuck behind the flood east of Valle De Trinidad were not "equalized" (just one more difference between Off-Road Racing and a Rally).

[Strong Bad]

Originally Posted by 340hp

So, no Racers who were stuck behind the rising water finished after the flood subsided?

( I am catching up after a weekend in the boonies)

Did the organizers stop all of the slower Racers at the waters edge to protect them or did the Racers take their chances and lose out by getting stuck? I could understand the ASO decision if the flash flood time penalty was the result of a decision to stop the Racers at the flood, but if the Racers were allowed to proceed and some succeeded then those that eventually succeeded should benefit from the effort.

It's happened before on the Baja 500 in 1990, and the Racers stuck behind the flood east of Valle De Trinidad were not "equalized" (just one more difference between Off-Road Racing and a Rally).

Funny I was just talking about that with some other guys, supposedly there was one guy in a class 9 car that hydroplaned across it, everyone else was piled up behind the water. It was said that Score adjusted the times of those stuck.

[340hp]

Originally Posted by Strong Bad

Funny I was just talking about that with some other guys, supposedly there was one guy in a class 9 car that hydroplaned across it, everyone else was piled up behind the water. It was said that Score adjusted the times of those stuck.

There was a Mini-Mag followed by a Class 8 truck that tried crossing as the water was rising, and the drivers were pulled the last half of the way across by a long chain of straps from the west side. Water was washing over the helmet of the Mini-Mag driver & buggy as it was crabbing sideways in the current before some spectators could get a strap attached. A Class 7 Ranger tried to jump the river about 50 meters southwest of the road and ended up getting pulled off the west bank by about 100 locals and spectators. These were the last vehicles to try crossing until the water level dropped.



As the water dropped a few chase vehicles plowed through followed by a few Class 8 trucks, and then racers on straps began crossing with the pulling help of the taller race trucks and chase vehicles.

I was behind the Semi & Trailer at the edge of the rising water on the west side. When the Semi driver stopped with about 100 meters to go before the wash I got out to see why, and it was raining so hard I could not see the wash. The driver opened his window enough to tell me in Spanish that it was foolish to go around and across the wash. Before our conversation was over the water was at his front tires.

The sky was nearly clear with no trace of rain potential before the water level started dropping.

I wonder why a flash flood delay is treated different than an impassable vehicle stack-up on the hills climbing out of narrow canyons or the narrow cliff-side roads leading to Mike's?


Did anyone who got stuck at the Dakar behind the rising water continue on to finish the stage?