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Old 01-16-2013, 07:28 AM   #72871
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sin3kal View Post
Not sure if this is the right place for this question but wasn't getting too much love on the DDR site since my bike is a pre 96. Anywho, I have a 93 dr650 that broke the knuckle that attaches to the kickstart shaft (yup it's one of those bikes). Not much in the way of kickstart levers for this bike specifically related to the dr650 that don't cost an arm, a leg, and a wallet. Was wondering if anyone knew if any of the kickstart levers from a dr250 or 200 have the same spline count and diameter on their mounting knuckles.
Hunt on ebay if you already havent,you never know what will turn up on there.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:38 AM   #72872
motolab
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Originally Posted by Anklyne View Post
Thanks for the tip.
It has a Procycle extended idle mixture screw, but apart from that, I don't believe the carby has been messed with (as I said, the airbox is unmodifed). That said, I'll pull it apart and give it a clean, inspect all the bits for wear and take note of the jetting.

Cheers.
How many miles are there on the carburetor? Was the bike ever parked for an extended period?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:44 AM   #72873
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I don't think anyone has successfully used an OEM needle (USA or otherwise) with a fully modified airbox (top cut out).
A de-snorkeled airbox - yes, an airbox with the top cut out - no.
If a DynoJet needle can be said to have worked successfully, then an adjustable OEM needle most certainly can. In fact, an adjustable OEM needle is the right direction to go in terms of shape to attempt to mitigate the wonky CO trace shape the DynoJet needle produces.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:56 AM   #72874
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
If a DynoJet needle can be said to have worked successfully, then an adjustable OEM needle most certainly can. In fact, an adjustable OEM needle is the right direction to go in terms of shape to attempt to mitigate the wonky CO trace shape the DynoJet needle produces.
I'm waiting for someone to show us how that can be done.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #72875
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I'm waiting for someone to show us how that can be done.
Correspondences on CV carbs:

Low rpm all throttle positions: float height, needle base diameter, emulsion tube outlet size
WOT operation overall: main jet
WOT operation between HP peak and red line: main air corrector
WOT operation below red line: jet needle shape
1/4 throttle opening: jet needle clip position
1/8 throttle opening: pilot jet size
1/16 throttle opening: pilot jet size
idle: mixture screw adjustment

Put some tape on the throttle housing and the edge of the grip. Mark zero throttle with a sharpie. This is best done with the engine idling, so you can tell when the slack in the cable has just been taken up. Turn off the engine and mark wide open. Now take a tape measure (metric works best in my opinion) and measure the length of the arc. Put a mark at the mid point. Duplicate this procedure to mark the mid-point between here and zero throttle opening to get 1/4 open. Repeat for 1/8 and 1/16 openings. Don't have an accident trying to look at the marks while riding. If you do, I'm not responsible!

Tune from the top down, i.e. get the right main jet in it for proper wide open throttle operation, then set the needle clip position for correct operation at 1/4 opening, then install the correct pilot jet for proper operation at 1/16-1/8 opening. Readjust the idle mixture after every jetting change. Without the ability to dyno with 5-gas analysis, I would go progressively leaner until there was just the very beginning of a discernible misbehavior. On the main jet, I would then go 2-3 sizes richer. On the needle clip, I would then adjust 1-2 positions richer. On the pilot jet, I would install 1-2 sizes larger. Please do bear in mind that if you have high compression, poor exhaust flow, low octane fuel, and/or ignition timing that is either correct or overadvanced for the correct mixture, tuning via this method could cause detonation and therefore engine damage.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #72876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Correspondences on CV carbs:
-Snip-
blah blah blah
-Snip-
I'm pretty sure I said show us not tell us.

.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:16 AM   #72877
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I'm pretty sure I said show us not tell us.

.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that someone owes you a CV carburetor tuning how-to video?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:50 AM   #72878
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Chain Guide

My chain guide disappeared this morning on the way to work. I haven't thrashed the DR off road for a while so I'm not sure what happened. Does anyone that has upgraded theirs have a stock piece in decent condition they would like to sell?
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #72879
Rob.G
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Intiminators

Shameless Plug: I just posted a set of Intiminators for sale in the Flea Market. Nothing wrong, just switching to Gold Valves as my riding skills have changed.

Rob
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #72880
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so much humor in this thread today
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #72881
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that someone owes you a CV carburetor tuning how-to video?
No, I was trying to (in a polite way) say "put up or shut up"
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:52 PM   #72882
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
No, I was trying to (in a polite way) say "put up or shut up"
I don't follow.

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Derek
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:33 PM   #72883
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I don't follow.

Regards,

Derek

He's saying theory is all well and good but none of us are aware of anyone who's used the stock needle IN CV carb WITH modified airbox AND achieved optimum results.

let's see where it's been done successfully. Many of us here are well familiar with the practice of how to tune - especially procycle.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:14 PM   #72884
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
I don't follow.
You keep saying how much better the OEM needle will work with an open airbox than the DynoJet needle. But you have no hands on experience tuning a DR650 with an open airbox.

The problem with the OEM needle and open airbox is that the needle will have to be raised about 4-6mm to have any hope of running well enough to make the bike rideable in the mid-range. Raising the needle that much causes the beginning of the taper to rise out of the needle jet way too early causing a low end bog.

In the real world the only viable solution available is the DynoJet needle.

I'd like to see you show that there are other options and I've even offered to foot the bill to give you that chance.
I'd also like to stop hearing about how much better OEM needle is until there is some proof to back it up.
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www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:20 PM   #72885
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Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
He's saying theory is all well and good but none of us are aware of anyone who's used the stock needle IN CV carb WITH modified airbox AND achieved optimum results.
He can speak for himself.

If, however, you yourself are saying that none of you (who?) are aware of anyone who has used the stock needle with a modified airbox and achieved optimum results, I agree that with the USA needle, the possibility is slim (no need to shout BTW). If you are asserting that no one has used the non-USA stock needle with a modified airbox and achieved optimum results, then that's either because no one has tried, because whoever did try doesn't know how to tune, or because there is a better needle profile yet.
Quote:
let's see where it's been done successfully.
Sure, let's!

The point I have been trying to make is that, based on the chart I have posted several times now, the results when using the DJ needle can hardly be called optimal, and that experience with many different needle profiles (including many of my own) on many different motorcycles has shown me that a profile such as the DJ needle has is likely to produce a wonky CO trace such as the DJ needle does in fact in practice produce. The same experience has shown me that a shape more like the non-USA adjustable needle has will in fact flatten the CO trace vs. what a needle with a shape like the DJ produces. I suppose there is always the possibility of an anomaly, but I can't see how the non-USA adjustable needle would not be an improvement over the DJ.
Quote:
Many of us here are well familiar with the practice of how to tune - especially procycle.
I think that depends on the definition of the phrase "familiar with the practice of how to tune". I'm not saying that to be rude. It's just that there are different levels of experience and different levels of tuning (some of which are equipment-dependent). Unfortunately there's no way around that.

Regards,

Derek
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