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Old 01-16-2013, 11:47 AM   #46
Ayrshire Bull
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cool post Rob - I've never seen these little lightweight rigs before - at first sight, I'd say it was an exceptionally efficient solution to the OP's original question.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #47
Wallowa
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Wink Really? The OP as In Mud...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrshire Bull View Post
cool post Rob - I've never seen these little lightweight rigs before - at first sight, I'd say it was an exceptionally efficient solution to the OP's original question.



First without the 'foot plate', which Rob did not get or use, in mud you could drive that square tube deep into the mud or sand; nor would it grip on ice. Just my take, but the engine guard tubing on my GSA is nothing I want to lift on. It is not stout. If you find yourself with the bike on its side like in Rob's photos [dirt], there are two techniques for you to left it upright with your legs [many thread show these]...even fully loaded [but of course you can strip gear and lighten the load]. If I can do it, anyone can. If you watch the manufacturer's video they lift the rear of a snowmobile [not the heavy end..] and then slid it [on the front skis] or topple it down slope. In mud or on ice this is something that could at minimum be tricky and possible damn dangerous. Lots of folks have had high lift jacks topple a load onto them or spit the jack at them.


For Rob or others this might work to stand the bike upright, rather than lifting it manually. To each their own.


I still come back to three circumstances you might find yourself in that could require baby-steps used with solid extraction hardware to get out of, if you could get out of them at all:


#1 Slippery footing that does not allow lifting the bike upright to re-start; this could be mud, snow/ice or a slimy stream bed [with water beating at you...]. Remember the rider must have good enough footing to lift the bike and the bike tires must be sufficiently anchored so that they do not slid away from the rider trying to lift the bike.


#2 Down a steep slope that cannot be ridden on [up, side hill or down] even if you can stand the bike upright.


#3 With a bike that is down on irregular terrain, such as a boulder, cobble field.


So what is the "ultimate" solution to getting the bike back on the road and to get the rider home? Wish I knew..

But I believe it involves good problem solving skills by the rider and a healthy dose of "MacGyver" to find innovative means to inch the bike back into service. So far as presented, in mud,sand,ice, on irregular ground or down a grade use of a double pulley or enhanced Z Drag rigging, lots of patience and clearing as best you can the path along which you are dragging the bike, makes the most sense to me. This assumes enough line/rope to reach a suitable anchor. I know I can't drag my bike without a mechanical device and enough mechanical advantage to reduce the force needed to use the device and still move my bike. A simple Come Along does not provide enough of a mechanical advantage for me to drag my GSA on soft ground; let alone up a grade.

Ultimately you may not be able to put the bike into a place where you can ride it out..."shanks mare" time, you walk out. If you ride alone that must always be in your options to get home. Calling AAA is not an option.

Ain't no easy answers here, but hey it is "adventure" riding!

Ps...I enjoy the discussion and fresh ideas being posted in this thread.

PPs..I am still mulling the suggestion of carrying a light weight piece of plastic [thin board?] that could be placed under the bike to reduce the friction during a drag...Hmmmm. Kinda like when I placed logs, perpendicular under my fully loaded sea kayak to pull it up step beaches...less friction and a crude set of wheels and no hull damage. Hmmm. Now if I could lash logs to sides of my downed bike and then place other logs perpendicular......
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #48
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What about a foot pump like this

http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Giant-Be...ress+foot+pump

And the air bag that I posted earlier would be pretty light weight, operate without battery or engine power, and store pretty compact.

The pump weight is 2 lbs and packs flat, the bag kit weighs 10 lbs, but that includes the big hose and funnel, gloves and a different hose and tarps...you could pare that down to just the bag for a bike so maybe 3-4 lbs for that...under $150, worth a try. Return it if it fails.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:24 PM   #49
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Air Bag...Hmmmmmm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
What about a foot pump like this

http://www.amazon.com/Intex-Giant-Be...ress+foot+pump

And the air bag that I posted earlier would be pretty light weight, operate without battery or engine power, and store pretty compact.

The pump weight is 2 lbs and packs flat, the bag kit weighs 10 lbs, but that includes the big hose and funnel, gloves and a different hose and tarps...you could pare that down to just the bag for a bike so maybe 3-4 lbs for that...under $150, worth a try. Return it if it fails.
Is this a great country or what! We can solve darn near any problem with a bigger 'air bag' or perhaps "more cow bells"...
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SocalRob View Post
At the risk of opening myself up to much derision again, here is my solution from a few years ago.

I still carry this jack in the bottom of my top case. I have probably dropped by GSA about 20 times off road in the last few years, and since I have been carrying this jack around I have never had to use it in order to pick up the bike. I will say that is seems mysterious to me why sometimes the GSA is easy to pick up and other times it is much more difficult. The time in the snow pictured below was one of the difficult times, so I do think traction has lots to do with it. I suspect it would be difficult to pick up in a field of wet clay. And I think all bets are off for most of us if we have a broken leg or seperated shoulder and have to pick the bike up solo.
I got me one of these jacks too and think it is a worthwhile tool to have in your pannier if you venture out into places like this by yourself where no one is likely to come along for a while, like days, weeks, years...? It fits perfectly at the bottom of my touratech pannier and is only about an inch thick. It was fairly easy to make a couple of "feet" for it for different kinds surfaces depending on whether grip or surface are is more important. You can also use it as a makeshift come-along if you carry along some line - mountaineering or sailing utilize many synthetic fibers that are incredibly strong and will pack up quite small.

Ive tried two different methods for picking up the pig without the jack. The butt against the seat method popularized by the 5'-0" girl in a youtube video is "easy" for her because she is so small - if you're tall, the geometry works against you. The cupped hands at the end of the handlebars works better for me, and requires somewhat less traction, but still no good on slippery surface especially if you can't anchor the bike to keep it from sliding.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #51
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I was thinking about this on the shitter: What would McGuyver do?



Could you remove the crash bar on a R1150GS Adv and use it as an anchor point in the mud? How about a pannier rack mount on other models?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:48 AM   #52
Ceri JC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
I get so sick of people always saying dont ride your bike there...get a better bike....buy a lighter bike {KTm, XR, DR, KLR....}

What if the OP and others like me do NOT want a different bike?
This. I generally find little bikes less fun unless you're able to push it and on most of the places you can ride legally near me, less of interesting as they're far more capable than the challenge offered by the terrain.

Also, I have a real difficulty gauging how bad something is going to be on a big bike as people's expectation of what they can do is generally so far out of whack with what a competent rider can do on them. You'd hope it'd be better with people who actually ride dirt bikes, but sadly it's not. I was once stuck in a pub during a really bad storm and the water causes a landslide that blocked the road (which definitely was impassable on a GS with sport touring tyres). The locals who were in there were all farmers, who from the sounds of it and the questions they asked about my bike, the overwhelming majority rode. I asked them about other ways round as the one my GPS showed involved a lot of backtracking and I was very close to my destination. Someone pointed out a particular dirt track nearby would bypass the landslide and the pub immediately erupted into a debate as to whether or not I'd get along it. It was pretty much a 50:50 split. I ended up trying it and not only got up there, but it was a piece of piss. Yes, it was steep and fairly muddy, but there was great levels of grip and I didn't even need to dab a foot down.

This of course can lead to a "boy who cried wolf" scenario, where you're so used to people's low expectations of what you can do on a big bike, that you discount all warnings, which brings its own troubles.

-----

RE: Picking the bike up. Things that I find help :

Make a point of initially refusing help when you drop your bike when with riding buddies and use it as 'practice' whilst you have the safety net of another pair of hands. A lot of people I see don't even try to get themselves unstuck/pick their big bike up and just wait for their friends. Consequently, when they drop it when solo, they haven't had much experience of sorting it out alone.

In the case of the boxers, when they're lying on their side, the engine cases form a natural see-saw point. In most drops, they end up holding the bike part of the way upright and make it easier. If it has gone right over though, they can make it harder. Treat it as a two stage job; first get it so both wheels are on the ground and then try lifting it. Standing on the wheels to force them down (and to lift the bars up) can help, then walk round the other side and lift as normal.

If there's a slope, spin the bike round (on its side, whilst it's lying down) so the bike is side on to the slope, with both wheels on the downhill side. Stand on the uphill side when you lift it. It's safer and much easier. Again, for boxers, use the engine cases as the pivot point to rotate it.

Take your luggage off, whilst the bike is still on the floor, if you can access the release mechanisms: Struggling with a 220KG bike is considerably better than struggling with a 250KG bike...

Now, it sounds like the OP is probably doing it right in this case, but 80%+ of the time I see someone unable to lift a big bike, they're doing it wrong. I have seen a 5'6" 60KG woman pick a GSA up without struggling.

Finally, look on the brightside. Once you learn how to pick a big bike up, the little bikes are a doddle!
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:49 AM   #53
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I just figured out a new product I am going to market...pannier boxes that are hinged on the bottom edge and have a small ratchet jack or screw drive at the top. Unlatch the top edge of the box on the down side, crank the screw drive or ratchet the jack and the box pushes down 90* and lifts the bike into the upright position....what do you guys think?

It only would add the weight of a hinge, and some sort of small screw drive or ratchet jack and would utilize the structure already on your ADV bikes...I am gonna get rich
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:58 AM   #54
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I am going to market my own kit. Two railroad stakes to drive into the ground where the tires are touching (so the bike cannot slide away from you), a foot pump that has already been noted and a bosu ball (you know, those big balls used for working out... no, not those. The ones used for yoga and pilates). Here are the steps; first drive the stakes into the ground to keep the tires from sliding, next put the bosu ball under the GS with the pump attached, finally start pumping away. As the bosu ball fills, the GS is lifted. Easy as a yoga workout.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:43 AM   #55
kellymac530
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How about someone make a jack like this, but light duty, maybe a screw together 3 piece aluminum tube with a pinch jack mechaism that all snaps into a pannier lid:

http://www.hi-lift.com/hi-lift-jacks/index.html

Then use a removeable pannier lid as a base fro the jack in sand and mud, pump the jack from under the sub frame or maybe the crash bars....

I am a GENIUS...
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:14 AM   #56
MsLizVt
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Just trying to be helpful ...

Hello everyone!

Growing up in Northern New England, it seemed like if the road wasn't paved, than at some point in time it was going to be muddy. Certainly here in Vermont the majority of the roads are actually fine gravel roads that rarely get too bad, except for mud season in the spring. The back roads, the Class 4, 5, 6 roads, are the ones it sounds like we're talking about, where no one goes frequently, and sometimes not even traveled daily, or even weekly.

Those roads are the bad ones, where you come around a corner, see a puddle, think you can make it around the outside edge, you gun it, and whoops there you go, the rear end of the bike is passing you, and you're already skimming across the puddle. That's the scenario in my mind, when reading through this thread.

To be honest, every one of the suggestions so far have been wonderful, from the Warn Winch, to the Dyneema rope and pulley, Z-drag system. Actually, the Rope Puller system is impressive as well. The words of advice of not riding on roads like that alone, getting a smaller bike, bringing a pillion all make sense too.

But here's the thing for me. As good as all those tools, systems, and words of wisdom are, most likely, when my bike goes down, none of those things will be with me, nor in that moment will I be heeding the advice. Instead, my bike will be down, me with mud all over, and just clothes on my back and the things in my bike.





So all that being said, here's where we start:

Where I first learned about the power of the lever, was years ago, two people lifted a truck up out of a silt mud hole, where the drivers side was buried up to the window. The other side was up on high ground. An old Dodge Power Wagon couldn't pull it out. But they used a couple of dead logs from the woods, and a lot of rocks. They put down a big thick log beside the truck, and used the trunk of a six inch thick tree, that had blown down, to lever that truck up a few inches. Rocks were thrown under the tires. The lever was repositioned to the front, and the process repeated, over and over. An hour or so later, the truck was up out of the watery silt, and backed out the way it came.



Random relative photo found on the internet.






Many times the thought has crossed my mind, "... what would you do Liz, if the bike was on it's side, and just too much for me to pick up ..." One thing you would find me doing is walking around in the woods, acting like a dog on the scent of a rabbit, looking for a relatively long branch on the ground. To me, if that branch is say two to three inches thick and maybe ten or fifteen feet long, that's a pretty good start.

With my big old GS, the end of lever would probably go in behind the footpeg, careful to not hit either the rear master cylinder on one side, or the shifter on the other, my jacket would go over the seat, so the branch doesn't tear it, and starting out on the other end of the lever, I'd try to walk the bike upright.

Now maybe that wouldn't work totally, but even if it lifts the bike up a bit, there could be another short branch or short log or even a rock, to fall into place to hold the bike up, even if it's only a few inches more than it was.



Another photo from the internet




Now you know that I'm not going to be carrying:

A Warn Winch
Come-a-long
Rope Puller
Two square feet of cutting board
A boat anchor
Snowmobile jack (which I think is a really cool tool)
Block and Tackle with 100 feet of static climbing rope (I do like the Dyneema version)

And I doubt most of you would be carrying most of those things too.




However, I could only hope I was on a first name basis with this guy, and all my troubles would be over. My guess is as long as my Sat Phone is working, and I'm pretty close to where he wants me to be in southern South America my world would be golden.









What I do have on my bike are four of those 15 foot ratchet straps that you get at Home Depot for $15.95, a few hand tools, and a hacksaw blade or two, no saw, just the blades. If it's necessary to cut down a sapling, it might take a while, but that silly little hacksaw blade can do it.

Now about those ratchet straps. If there's a branch overhead, or a tree near by, a pair (four, if more length is needed) of those ratchet straps side by side, could probably get the bike upright, foot of strap by foot of strap.

Why are there four of those ratchet straps in my bike, you ask? Well they are used to tied things down on the bike, and how many times have you been in a situation where you hear "... i can put the bike in the back of my truck, but got nothing to tie it down with ... " After the first three times of hearing that, the straps had a permanent home on my bike.












Now what if the bike is down over a banking?

To be honest, there's no real plan in my mind. If the bike is destroyed, then probably Plan A is to grab what I need and walk out. If the bike doesn't have any bad damage, than Plan B might be using ratchet straps and a gin pole.











Depending how far down the banking it is, if it's a long ways down, and there are trees on the banking, using their branches and the ratchet straps would be a start, get it up a few feet at a time, reposition. Knowing that the bike weighs a lot, and those little ratchet handles are pretty short, creating a pulley system might be in order.

You know those old style carabiners? You'll always find a handful attached to my bike. They just plain come in handy. We're not talking about the small ones on the end of a key chain, bigger, with more strength. A couple of those, in a pinch, can become pulleys for the strap to run through.







The other choice, going back to the gin pole, is to use those little hacksaw blades to cut a sapling that splits into two trunks, and turn it upside down to become my gin pole.



A few points to make.

This is presuming I'm alone way in the woods, far from civilization, and walking out is going to be a long ways.

If things are bad, and there's hope someone might come driving by, usually there's enough gear on my bike to camp out in a hammock and sleeping bag, or at least a tarp and a bag, food and water.

If the bike really is way down over a banking, probably the tank, front wheel, and rear wheel would come off, as well as the panniers. The lighter the bike is the better, if dragging it on it's side.

Am I making sense with all that?

Enjoy,




Liz

PS: Wait there's more!!!



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Old 01-20-2013, 01:37 AM   #57
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Wait! There's more!

There was a little come-a-long system using Dyneema line. These are the photos of it. Unfortunately, it appears the company is regrouping.








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Old 01-20-2013, 01:40 AM   #58
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don't ride a land yacht

yesterday was asking another 1150 GSA... just what does your land yacht weight?

couldn't get an answer .... so what does your 1150 GSA weight?
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:48 AM   #59
_cy_
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what's the name of this super cool come along? how much did they sell for?

Quote:
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There was a little come-a-long system using Dyneema line. These are the photos of it. Unfortunately, it appears the company is regrouping.




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Old 01-20-2013, 02:06 AM   #60
MsLizVt
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This is the end ...

In response to the OP's initial question, "... any tool to help picking up your adventure in the mud when you are by yourself? " I think this is a pretty good tool.

My best recollection is it comes apart into small sections, and it attaches to the footpeg in some manner, and I want to say there is a strap that attaches to the upper part of the bike somewhere.

Well you all take a look and share what you think.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure this is designed and made by an ADV Inmate.


Liz










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