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Old 01-14-2013, 02:03 PM   #16
up2nogood
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Was thinking about the thermostat. Good idea.

Where'd you get the lower temp one from?
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by up2nogood View Post
Was thinking about the thermostat. Good idea.

Where'd you get the lower temp one from?
http://www.advmachines.com/category_s/93.htm
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:02 AM   #18
AB13
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Bdcw kit + switch

I installed the BDCW kit with a switch so that in cooler temps I don't have the load of the second fan and can use my heated gear without taxing the charging system.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:23 PM   #19
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You can also set the temp you want your fan to kick on in TuneECU.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:17 PM   #20
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Regardless of which fan switch temperature set-point you chose, high or low, the overall capacity of the cooling system doesn't change.

Said another way, if your engine is getting hot enough to blow coolant with the stock higher set-point switch, then using a lower temperature set-point switch will not, in and by itself, keep you from blowing coolant.

A higher pressure radiator cap would raise the temperature at which you start blowing coolant, but radiator surface area and air flow are still the primary determinants of how many BTUs/second can be removed from the motor. Wetting agents might improve heat transfer efficiency to yield a marginal increase in cooling capacity.

Adding a second fan significantly increases air flow at low bike speeds and, therefore, the effective cooling capacity of the system is also significantly increased when the bike is moving slowly, but switching both fans on at a lower temperature does not increase the maximum rate at which BTUs can be extracted from the engine. Similarly, using a lower temperature thermostat does nothing to increase cooling capacity and your engine oil will take longer to get up to operating temperature. Removing the thermostat altogether might increase coolant flow, which might increase cooling capacity, but then your engine oil would take even longer to come up to temperature.

With all that said, rather than controlling both fans from a single switch, it would make more sense to control one fan with a low temperature set-point switch and the other with a higher temperature switch. Sequencing the fans this way would save electrical power and only run the second fan when needed.

BTW, I'm using the AdvMachines fan kit and had no issues in Fish Canyon/49'er Escape near Ballarat/Death Valley at 100 F plus heat. 1st and 2nd gear in sections.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceSquatch View Post
You can also set the temp you want your fan to kick on in TuneECU.
This is unfortunately a incorrect statement. The 990 does not leverage a ECU's capability to turn the cooling fan on/off, this is only performed by the thermo switch that threads into the right radiator tank.

EDIT: Also, to my knowledge, there is not a lower temperature thermostat, the device that regulates the engine coolant temperature. The Thermo switch is the device that tells the fans to turn on/off dependent upon a set temp range. OEM temp is ~220F on. My experience with the lower temp thermo switch (~200F on) is as follows, and I almost completely agree with BillyD's statements, with deviation on that with the fans coming on sooner there is a greater potential for a period of "rest", so MAY allow for the system to catch up sooner. Granted, we are not increasing the capacity of the heat exchanger, we are increasing the exchange of heat by forcing the flow of air through the exchanger (radiator), still there are limits and in some cases the limits will still be met when the engine is producing more heat than can be rejected to the ambient air.

EDIT2: What I typically experience with the addition of the 4" fan on the right side of the radiator (my experience is with the ADVmachines fan so I cannot speak to the BDCW fan) is a reduction in fan cycle time by about 40-50%. This is unloaded and with the engine idling on the lift. The cycle time between on and off is reduced again by about another 30% when adding the lower temp thermo switch, this switch turns both fans on at the same time. During normal riding the fans will cycle more frequently and will tend to come on sooner (with 200F switch), but again will turn off sooner as well. The engine temperature is still regulated by the thermostat and most reports that I have heard back from other people who use this system say that typically the gauge rarely exceeds 4 bars (950), and almost never goes past 5 bars unless in extreme conditions and loads. Even at 6 bars of engine temperatures the cooling system should still be "stable" and not puking coolant uncontrollably.

Personally I run the ADVmachines rally fan.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:57 PM   #22
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Wetting agents, their primary benefit is that they help keep the water in contact with all the surface in
the cylinder and head assembly, I've seen testing done and it reduces head and cylinder hotspots.
Even if your heating the overall engine up this reduces the chances of a area fatiguing and giving up on you.
Like between the spark plug and valve guides...

I'm still interested in trying waterless coolant in my 950. I like the idea of zero pressure in the cooling system..

Cheers.

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Old 01-15-2013, 10:29 PM   #23
Maoule
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WTF? I think I'd like to know more, please expand.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:13 PM   #24
TheMuffinMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeegee View Post
I found replacing the stock temp switch didn't allow the radiator and thermostat to do their jobs, and the fans actually ran longer than when I switch back to stock.

Love the 2 fans though.
My fan bearings are a bit gritty since I ran the lower temp switch. In off-road the fans were always on and when I was behind other riders their dust gritted up the fan bearings over a season of riding.

I put the stock temp switch back in, made sure the system was burped properly (which is a royal pain) and I never had overheating issues since then. The only time I came close was a 10 minute mountain climb in first gear and high revs the whole way up.

I have the ADVMachines bracket and I like it, but had to add a fan shroud to the right side fan to keep the gas in the right tank from boiling/pressurizing.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #25
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BillyD the lower temp (200f) fan switch works by beginning to shed heat sooner than the 220f switch.

In heat exchangers the temperature difference (delta) of the source (our radiator in this case) & the sink (atmospheric air) does indeed change the time required to shed heat to come down to (whatever) target temperature. By not allowing the coolant to reach that higher temp you're already 20 degrees closer to your target temp.

Wattman did extensive testing on cooling systems & found that having a fan on at 60+mph lowered the coolant temp 11f- albeit on a "lowly" KLR. Seems our bikes would fare better as the back area of the radiator is quite cramped

I've turned fans on before I rode into deep sand to pre-cool, which will allow you a few more minutes of run time before the bike heats up- sometimes it's all you need in a tight section before you can make some speed to bleed heat off. I'm talking about the +90f/80% humidity of America's South, don't know how it would work in the dry Southwest

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead View Post
I'm still interested in trying waterless coolant in my 950. I like the idea of zero pressure in the cooling system
Are you referring to Evans Coolant? That stuff is strange. Some dirtbike racers swear by it, others have destroyed their top ends because it doesn't "boil off" and give the rider a visual clue to overheating. It's expensive (+$40/gallon) & your system must be flushed with Evans Coolant & discarded to remove all old fluid which would be pricey on our bikes. If you are on a trip you can't add anything other than Evans to your radiator/coolant tank should you develop a leak. It's also VERY slippery and can create water pump & head gasket leaks- and our LC8's already have a tough time keeping their coolant behind the water pump seal. It stinks & is difficult to wash off your hands & clothing...YMMV Not sure about "zero pressure"- if you heat a closed system you are going to increase its pressure- one of those pesky ThermoDynamic Laws

Stick to a wetting agent with standard coolant- I used Redline concentrate

someone ask for the part number for the 2nd fan shroud... here's the link
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geometrician screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 01:42 PM Reason: added 2nd shroud link
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:27 PM   #26
el queso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post
Are you referring to Evans Coolant? That stuff is strange. Some dirtbike racers swear by it, others have destroyed their top ends because it doesn't "boil off" and give the rider a visual clue to overheating. It's expensive (+$40/gallon) & your system must be flushed with Evans Coolant & discarded to remove all old fluid which would be pricey on our bikes. If you are on a trip you can't add anything other than Evans to your radiator/coolant tank should you develop a leak. It's also VERY slippery and can create water pump & head gasket leaks- and our LC8's already have a tough time keeping their coolant behind the water pump seal. It stinks & is difficult to wash off your hands & clothing...YMMV Not sure about "zero pressure"- if you heat a closed system you are going to increase its pressure- one of those pesky ThermoDynamic Laws

Stick to a wetting agent with standard coolant- I used Redline concentrate

someone ask for the part number for the 2nd fan shroud... here's the link
One minor note. You can add water to Evans Coolant in an emergency, but if you exceed 5% they recommend you refill with Evans ASAP. That said, I considered it for my dirtbike, but decided to stick with a water based coolant.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:55 PM   #27
BillyD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geometrician View Post
BillyD the lower temp (200f) fan switch works by beginning to shed heat sooner than the 220f switch.

In heat exchangers the temperature difference (delta) of the source (our radiator in this case) & the sink (atmospheric air) does indeed change the time required to shed heat to come down to (whatever) target temperature. By not allowing the coolant to reach that higher temp you're already 20 degrees closer to your target temp.

Wattman did extensive testing on cooling systems & found that having a fan on at 60+mph lowered the coolant temp 11f- albeit on a "lowly" KLR. Seems our bikes would fare better as the back area of the radiator is quite cramped

I've turned fans on before I rode into deep sand to pre-cool, which will allow you a few more minutes of run time before the bike heats up- sometimes it's all you need in a tight section before you can make some speed to bleed heat off. I'm talking about the +90f/80% humidity of America's South, don't know how it would work in the dry Southwest
Agreed. Pre-cooling (by switching on the fan) might help make it through a transitory situation without boiling over.

My comments assumed a more steady state situation, such as when I'm usually stuck in those tight technical sections for extended periods of time...alone...dying of thirst...crying for mama.

Here's a somewhat relevant graph. Switching on a fan increases air flow (MPH) and resulting in increased rate of heat rejection.



Per geometrician's comment, increasing the differential between air and coolant temperatures, would also increase available cooling, albeit temporarily in his example.

Alternately, if you were to substitute inlet-outlet temperature differentials (delta degrees C) for coolant flow (GPM) and air flow (MPH) rates on the graph, the graph would look largely the same. In other words, the higher the coolant temperature drop through the radiator or air temperature increase across the radiator, the better heat transfer performance at any given flow rate.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el queso View Post
One minor note. You can add water to Evans Coolant in an emergency, but if you exceed 5% they recommend you refill with Evans ASAP. That said, I considered it for my dirtbike, but decided to stick with a water based coolant.
Been using Evans in the 565 for years without issue. Granted, it could be overheating and I wouldn't know it. Ya got me there.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #29
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On my old 640 i had a switch to turn the fan on whenever i wanted so if getting stuck in traffic or in the tight stuff i'd just switch it on to keep temps down before it got to come on by its self, has anyone done this to a 950/990
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:33 PM   #30
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I put the BDCW second fan and Rally Raid thermostatic fan switch on for a long trip to Italy last summer. Turns out it was their hottest for about 10 years and stayed in the high 30s, low 40s for most of the time. Phew. I reverted to the stock fan switch half way through as the fans were coming on too much of the time for my liking. The OEM fan has a shield that helps divert the blown hot air away from you. The second fan does not and blew the air straight at my leg.....


Billy D can vouch for the heat. We bumped into each other a couple of times in the same afternoon in Tuscany after a good lunch at Volpaia. Hey Billy how goes ?

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