ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #72931
TinkerinWstuff
Take it apart
 
TinkerinWstuff's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Northern Front Range
Oddometer: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
My GSXR can showed up today so I pulled the stock exhaust off to get ready for the install and one of the first things I did was dremel out some of the weld out of the header pipe. I've gone from a trapazoidal opening to a round hole now that looks pretty good in comparison. I want to get the optimal opening without taking too much out so I was wondering if anyone could post a nice close up picture of the right amount of metal removal on this pipe?
here's mine



before - mine wasn't as ugly as some I've seen

__________________
1999 Suzuki DR650
1998 Honda VFR800 Interceptor
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/f...KJutW9osVpn3hd
TinkerinWstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 04:10 PM   #72932
godaddygo
drdude
 
godaddygo's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Post Falls ID
Oddometer: 247
Head light off-on switch

I would like to put a on-off switch for the headlight. Would still like it to work on high beam for flashing.
I think the drawing says the white is for low beam...other two are yellow(high) and black/white I am thinking is the ground? I am thinking the switch on the white? But I am a electrical moron...
Chris
NorthernI daho
godaddygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #72933
victor441
Studly Adventurer
 
victor441's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Oddometer: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by cberard View Post
I would like to put a on-off switch for the headlight. Would still like it to work on high beam for flashing.
I think the drawing says the white is for low beam...other two are yellow(high) and black/white I am thinking is the ground? I am thinking the switch on the white? But I am a electrical moron...
Chris
NorthernI daho
It would be a good idea to add a relay and heavier wiring directly from the battery while you are at it (lights will be MUCH brighter), I did this to my bike per the sketch below using a switch and a standard SPDT headlight relay, however it is possible to leave the lights on and run the battery down this way
OR, you could wire a relay and diodes so that the headlight is off until HB is switched on and then it is latched and works normally, only about $10 for parts, there was a clever DIY thread on this at http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506789







victor441 screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 04:49 PM
victor441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:47 PM   #72934
sandwash
Beastly Adventurer
 
sandwash's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Flagstaff Az
Oddometer: 1,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
My GSXR can showed up today so I pulled the stock exhaust off to get ready for the install and one of the first things I did was dremel out some of the weld out of the header pipe. I've gone from a trapazoidal opening to a round hole now that looks pretty good in comparison. I want to get the optimal opening without taking too much out so I was wondering if anyone could post a nice close up picture of the right amount of metal removal on this pipe?
Becarefull and not take too much off,it may crack around the joint.
__________________
97dr650 FCR-MX pumper,plus other goodies
sandwash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 05:51 PM   #72935
Carl Childers
Ghost in the Machine
 
Carl Childers's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Northern New Mexico
Oddometer: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
here's mine



before - mine wasn't as ugly as some I've seen


Thanks! Mine was even more restricted than your before shot. Judging by your after picture I think I'll stop where I'm at I've got it cleaned out to that point but don't want to weaken the joint.
Carl Childers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 07:20 PM   #72936
motolab
Beastly Adventurer
 
motolab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Oddometer: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
You keep saying how much better the OEM needle will work with an open airbox than the DynoJet needle. But you have no hands on experience tuning a DR650 with an open airbox.
Correct. And although it would be nice, I don't need it in order to know the trends.
Quote:
The problem with the OEM needle and open airbox is that the needle will have to be raised about 4-6mm to have any hope of running well enough to make the bike rideable in the mid-range.
Are you saying that you tried a non-USA oem needle and raised it to its highest position by installing the clip in the lowest groove, and found the mixture to be too lean at 1/4 opening? If so, that's likely because the main jet was still too small. If the word mid-range does not mean 1/4 opening in this context, please clarify what it does mean. If you experimented with a USA needle instead of a non-USA needle, what method did you use to raise the needle?
Quote:
Raising the needle that much causes the beginning of the taper to rise out of the needle jet way too early causing a low end bog.
Again, if the correct size main jet is installed, the needle should not need to be raised much at all in order to achieve the correct mixture at 1/4 opening. You are right in that there is a definite tendency for certain rpm to become overly rich as a result of attempting to jet a CV carb for a modified airbox (the more it is modified, the stronger this tendency becomes). However it is the low to to low-mid rpm range that this invariably affects, and it's not due to having to raise the needle inordinately, but simply because of the large jump in main jet size that is required to get the proper mixture at the higher rpm. Couple that with a worn out emulsion tube and/or the float height being too low, and there will definitely be problems.
Quote:
In the real world the only viable solution available is the DynoJet needle.
I used to believe that needle shapes such as the DynoJet needle has would solve opened-up-air-box-with-main-jet-for-correct-higher-rpm-operation-induced low to mid-low rpm richness problems as well. In fact, my mind kept insisting that every instance where a needle shape like that didn't work had to be an anomaly, until it finally dawned on me that I had not ever seen one work, and that that leads to the inevitable conclusion that they don't work in general.
Quote:
I'd like to see you show that there are other options and I've even offered to foot the bill to give you that chance.
I'd obviously like that too, but with how uncivilized your last few responses have been, I'm not sure I would want to interact on that kind of a level.
Quote:
I'd also like to stop hearing about how much better OEM needle is until there is some proof to back it up.
We can easily turn that around. I have posted a chart with a CO trace that shows that the DynoJet needle doesn't work very well. You have not posted a chart with a CO trace that shows that the non-USA OEM needle doesn't work very well. Neither have you posted a chart with a CO trace that shows that the DynoJet needle does work well.

Regards,

Derek
motolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:02 PM   #72937
Chill
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Chill's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: QLD Australia
Oddometer: 173
I want to do something about the brakes on my bike. I don't feel that they are woefully inadequate, more that they could do with sharpening up a bit. The bike's only 4 years old but the brake fluid has never been changed (manual says should be every 2 years) and the fluid is quite dark which I understand is due to heat cycling/moisture absorption and not a great sign.

So I'm thinking to change the fluid and while I'm at it upgrade to braided lines. If I go for new pads at the same time, what is the general consensus on this? Are OEM pads considered the best as seems to be the case often with bike parts or are EBC or after-market ones better? Will this give me the sharpening up that I'm looking for?
Chill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #72938
procycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
procycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Center of the DR650 universe
Oddometer: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
...how uncivilized...
...chart with a CO trace that shows that the DynoJet needle does work well...
I don't know how you think I've been uncivilized. I mean really, we haven't even gotten down to shouting, name calling or even excessive exclamation points. Maybe it's just because we disagree. Anyway, I have no animosity directed at you.

A bunch of posts back neo1piv014 said he has an adjustable OEM needle and a modified airbox and hopes to end up with a good running bike. My best advice to him would be to not waste his time. Maybe with your guidance he can end up with a good result. I'll be very interested in seeing what happens. I don't mind being wrong if it means learning something new.

We have different criteria for tuning. I'm really only interested in the end result. A bike should start easily, warm up in a reasonable amount of time (but not too quickly), have a stable idle, good throttle response, rev out cleanly, make the most top end power it can, not exhibit any hiccups, hesitations or bogging and get good fuel economy. If the jetting setup does all this it doesn't matter if the CO trace is flat, wavy, zigzag or loop-de-loop. If it runs within a certain range it won't cause any drivability problems and that's perfectly fine for bikes like the DR650 that will never be used as competitive race bikes. The DJ needle is far from ideal but it can be set up to satisfy all these criteria. There are thousands of DR650s out in the world that prove this is true. I don't have to look at a CO trace to be convinced. And I'll say again, the DJ needle best choice available until somebody comes up with something that actually works better.
__________________
Clarke's second law of Egodynamics: "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." - Jasper Fforde
www.procycle.us - Everything for your DR650 and lots of other great stuff!
DR900 Big Bore Stroker buildup
TurboDiesel Corvette - go to the end to start at the beginning
procycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 09:49 PM   #72939
LucasLeader
Gnarly Adventurer
 
LucasLeader's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Chico, CA
Oddometer: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I want to do something about the brakes on my bike. I don't feel that they are woefully inadequate, more that they could do with sharpening up a bit. The bike's only 4 years old but the brake fluid has never been changed (manual says should be every 2 years) and the fluid is quite dark which I understand is due to heat cycling/moisture absorption and not a great sign.

So I'm thinking to change the fluid and while I'm at it upgrade to braided lines. If I go for new pads at the same time, what is the general consensus on this? Are OEM pads considered the best as seems to be the case often with bike parts or are EBC or after-market ones better? Will this give me the sharpening up that I'm looking for?
As far as brake pads just don't get the Neutron brand that rockymountain sells. I put them on the rear and they were noticeably worse than the EBCs. I like the EBC Carbon X. I have them on one and a half of my bikes and they work great. http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_...ds/index.shtml

LucasLeader screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 09:57 PM
LucasLeader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #72940
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill View Post
I want to do something about the brakes on my bike. I don't feel that they are woefully inadequate, more that they could do with sharpening up a bit. The bike's only 4 years old but the brake fluid has never been changed (manual says should be every 2 years) and the fluid is quite dark which I understand is due to heat cycling/moisture absorption and not a great sign.

So I'm thinking to change the fluid and while I'm at it upgrade to braided lines. If I go for new pads at the same time, what is the general consensus on this? Are OEM pads considered the best as seems to be the case often with bike parts or are EBC or after-market ones better? Will this give me the sharpening up that I'm looking for?
New fluid is essential ... especially if you work your brakes hard in hot weather. I flush out old fluid for new about twice a year. Brake fluid absorbs moisture. Once every two years is NOT enough ... do it AT LEAST once a year.

Pads
You'll get different input on this.
After I wore out the original Nissin stock brake pads I did what most everyone else does; I went with EBC sintered HH pads. (their best race pads) Cheaper than Nissin.
I've run 2 sets of EBC fronts and 3 out back. At first I thought the EBC pads were OK ... but over time ... my braking was really not good. The EBC front pads were a bit worn, perhaps they were glazed? For laughs I swapped back in an old Nissin OEM set (quite worn but usable) back into the front brake. WOW! What a difference!

Braking was instantly 20% better. I hunted around on line and found OEM Nissin HH pads for not much more than EBC pads. I'll never go back to EBC until they improve their HH sintered pads. BTW, I de-glazed my EBC pads ... not much improvement ... Nissin still much stronger.

For more real world serious braking you could look into fitting a different caliper, bigger disc and different master cylinder. ALL these upgrades will transform braking power. It CAN be done.

PS: if your pads have ever been oil soaked ... then this could also be a problem and reason for Glazed pads. Fresh, clean pads essential.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #72941
motolab
Beastly Adventurer
 
motolab's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Oddometer: 2,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I don't know how you think I've been uncivilized. I mean really, we haven't even gotten down to shouting, name calling or even excessive exclamation points. Maybe it's just because we disagree.
I would never consider directing a phrase such as "put up or shut up" at anyone in a forum. I would not consider telling someone to stop posting about a particular subject matter either (unless it was off topic, in which case I would make a polite request).
Quote:
A bunch of posts back neo1piv014 said he has an adjustable OEM needle and a modified airbox and hopes to end up with a good running bike. My best advice to him would be to not waste his time.
As you already know, my best advice for him is not to waste his time with the DJ needle.
Quote:
Maybe with your guidance he can end up with a good result.
I don't think he'll need much, but if he does, I'll be available.
Quote:
I don't mind being wrong if it means learning something new.
I'm glad to hear that.
Quote:
We have different criteria for tuning.
I suppose you must be right about that.
Quote:
I'm really only interested in the end result.
As am I.
Quote:
A bike should start easily, warm up in a reasonable amount of time (but not too quickly), have a stable idle, good throttle response, rev out cleanly, make the most top end power it can, not exhibit any hiccups, hesitations or bogging and get good fuel economy. If the jetting setup does all this it doesn't matter if the CO trace is flat, wavy, zigzag or loop-de-loop.
Unfortunately the shape of the CO trace indicates whether the criteria you set forth are being met or not.
Quote:
If it runs within a certain range it won't cause any drivability problems and that's perfectly fine for bikes like the DR650 that will never be used as competitive race bikes.
You left out that it should not be lean enough anywhere to cause detonation, and not be rich enough anywhere to cause excessive carbon deposits or wash the oil off of the cylinder wall.
Quote:
The DJ needle is far from ideal but it can be set up to satisfy all these criteria.
As the CO trace in the chart I posted shows, it will certainly not meet the not-be-lean-enough-anywhere-to-cause-detonation, and not-be rich-enough-anywhere-to-cause-excessive-carbon-deposits criteria. It may not meet the not washing the oil off of the cylinder wall criterion either.
Quote:
There are thousands of DR650s out in the world that prove this is true.
That they are out there with a DJ needle installed proves nothing more than the fact that there are DR650s with DJ needles installed.
Quote:
I don't have to look at a CO trace to be convinced.
Interesting how I need to prove matters but you don't. In fact it seems that you don't have to answer any questions I ask you, or clarify anything I inquire about.
Quote:
And I'll say again, the DJ needle best choice available until somebody comes up with something that actually works better.
That's already been done. Don't forget that needle shapes such as the DJ's exacerbate the very phenomena you claim they mitigate.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 10:54 PM
motolab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM   #72942
heirhead
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: On the water in SoCal
Oddometer: 381
How bout those Lakers?

Heirhead
heirhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:40 PM   #72943
Magnum Noel
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Magnum Noel's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Wellington NZ
Oddometer: 169
Dear Procycle and motolab. I have a dyno jet needle and main jet with an opened air box and my bike runs like a charm with no detramental side affects that I can detect, Runs way better than it did in its standard configuration.
Just my two bobs worth.

regards Noel
Magnum Noel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 11:49 PM   #72944
Chill
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Chill's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: QLD Australia
Oddometer: 173
Thanks for the braking info LucasLeader and Adv Grifter. I think I'll start with new fluid, braided lines and new pads and take it from there. I'm not looking for huge gains, just a bit more bite and feel after a few "moments" commuting.

Thanks.
Chill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #72945
NordieBoy
Armature speller
 
NordieBoy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Kiwiland
Oddometer: 7,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
Thanks! Mine was even more restricted than your before shot. Judging by your after picture I think I'll stop where I'm at I've got it cleaned out to that point but don't want to weaken the joint.
Mine cracked from a mis-aligned mid-pipe but not near the weld...


NordieBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014