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Old 01-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #72916
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I don't know how you think I've been uncivilized. I mean really, we haven't even gotten down to shouting, name calling or even excessive exclamation points. Maybe it's just because we disagree.
I would never consider directing a phrase such as "put up or shut up" at anyone in a forum. I would not consider telling someone to stop posting about a particular subject matter either (unless it was off topic, in which case I would make a polite request).
Quote:
A bunch of posts back neo1piv014 said he has an adjustable OEM needle and a modified airbox and hopes to end up with a good running bike. My best advice to him would be to not waste his time.
As you already know, my best advice for him is not to waste his time with the DJ needle.
Quote:
Maybe with your guidance he can end up with a good result.
I don't think he'll need much, but if he does, I'll be available.
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I don't mind being wrong if it means learning something new.
I'm glad to hear that.
Quote:
We have different criteria for tuning.
I suppose you must be right about that.
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I'm really only interested in the end result.
As am I.
Quote:
A bike should start easily, warm up in a reasonable amount of time (but not too quickly), have a stable idle, good throttle response, rev out cleanly, make the most top end power it can, not exhibit any hiccups, hesitations or bogging and get good fuel economy. If the jetting setup does all this it doesn't matter if the CO trace is flat, wavy, zigzag or loop-de-loop.
Unfortunately the shape of the CO trace indicates whether the criteria you set forth are being met or not.
Quote:
If it runs within a certain range it won't cause any drivability problems and that's perfectly fine for bikes like the DR650 that will never be used as competitive race bikes.
You left out that it should not be lean enough anywhere to cause detonation, and not be rich enough anywhere to cause excessive carbon deposits or wash the oil off of the cylinder wall.
Quote:
The DJ needle is far from ideal but it can be set up to satisfy all these criteria.
As the CO trace in the chart I posted shows, it will certainly not meet the not-be-lean-enough-anywhere-to-cause-detonation, and not-be rich-enough-anywhere-to-cause-excessive-carbon-deposits criteria. It may not meet the not washing the oil off of the cylinder wall criterion either.
Quote:
There are thousands of DR650s out in the world that prove this is true.
That they are out there with a DJ needle installed proves nothing more than the fact that there are DR650s with DJ needles installed.
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I don't have to look at a CO trace to be convinced.
Interesting how I need to prove matters but you don't. In fact it seems that you don't have to answer any questions I ask you, or clarify anything I inquire about.
Quote:
And I'll say again, the DJ needle best choice available until somebody comes up with something that actually works better.
That's already been done. Don't forget that needle shapes such as the DJ's exacerbate the very phenomena you claim they mitigate.

Regards,

Derek

motolab screwed with this post 01-16-2013 at 10:54 PM
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:10 PM   #72917
heirhead
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How bout those Lakers?

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Old 01-16-2013, 11:40 PM   #72918
Magnum Noel
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Dear Procycle and motolab. I have a dyno jet needle and main jet with an opened air box and my bike runs like a charm with no detramental side affects that I can detect, Runs way better than it did in its standard configuration.
Just my two bobs worth.

regards Noel
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:49 PM   #72919
Chill
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Location: QLD Australia
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Thanks for the braking info LucasLeader and Adv Grifter. I think I'll start with new fluid, braided lines and new pads and take it from there. I'm not looking for huge gains, just a bit more bite and feel after a few "moments" commuting.

Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #72920
NordieBoy
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Location: Kiwiland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Childers View Post
Thanks! Mine was even more restricted than your before shot. Judging by your after picture I think I'll stop where I'm at I've got it cleaned out to that point but don't want to weaken the joint.
Mine cracked from a mis-aligned mid-pipe but not near the weld...


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Old 01-17-2013, 04:23 AM   #72921
Anklyne
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motolab View Post
How many miles are there on the carburetor? Was the bike ever parked for an extended period?

Regards,

Derek
25,000Km (~15,500 miles). Not sure really. It's had 2 previous owners that I know of and the guy I bought it off said he mainly ended up using it for trips down to the shops (he was in a rural area so it was a decent ride).

Probably is a damn good idea I give the internals a check I guess...
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:18 AM   #72922
TinkerinWstuff
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There's another DR thread for folks who are extra sensitive

How is it I can sit at a bar with a guy, have a heated debate, tell eachother "awe bullschmitty and flippover" then buy each other beers talking about the hottie that just walked in the door all without any hard feelings?

But on the interwebz forum, folks get their mangina all dry and chaffed.

Relax already!
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:45 AM   #72923
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff View Post
New topic anyone?

Is that the 790 kit or the high compression piston?


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Old 01-17-2013, 07:59 AM   #72924
TinkerinWstuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
Is that the 790 kit or the high compression piston?


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standard bore high comp
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:19 AM   #72925
Escaped
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Brisk Commute

I had a nice brisk commute n the Sacramento CA Area this morning on my 2006 DR650!

27 degrees fahrenheit @ 80 miles per hour actual = wind chill effective temp of 4 degrees F - burrrr!

No electric gear I might add.

Done on my dr bought new in 06 with about 40,000 miles and with DynoJet Kit, slide drilled and side cover removed, installed and working great for 35,000 miles or so (still power only wheelies and gets an avg 46 mpg)
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #72926
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anklyne View Post
25,000Km (~15,500 miles). Not sure really. It's had 2 previous owners that I know of and the guy I bought it off said he mainly ended up using it for trips down to the shops (he was in a rural area so it was a decent ride).

Probably is a damn good idea I give the internals a check I guess...
I would pay particularly close attention to:

The float needle's tip: Check with and without magnification for a witness line where it has been contacting the seat. If one is found, the float valve either leaks or will begin leaking soon, causing a high fuel level or overflowing.

The needle seat o-ring: Make sure it fits snugly and is not cracked/hardened/deformed/shrunken/otherwise damaged. If it's not in good shape, it will leak, causing overflowing.

The slide guide: Make sure that the indentations concentric with the bore in the bottom corners adjacent to where the slide bottoms are still .010" (.25mm) deep or more. If they are not, the emulsion tube is at risk for wear. See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=300, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=301, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=298, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=299, and http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=68638.

The slide: Make sure there is no vertical grooving on the downstream side and that the lift hole area has not been increased by drilling. Drilling causes excessive slide guide and slide wear, which in turn accelerates emulsion tube wear. See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=304, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=302, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=303

The emulsion tube: If the outlet has ovaled, the mixture will become overly rich at low rpm at all openings. The wear can sometimes be hard to see, but keep in mind that .0004" (.01mm) of wear will be discernible on the dyno as an approximately 1 percentage point change in CO (i.e. it the CO was 4% before the wear, it would now be 5%). Sometimes spinning the tube between your fingers can help you see the wear, as can inserting something known to be round, however if the slide guide is worn more than .010" (.25mm), you can pretty much be assured that the emulsion tube is worn. See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=305, and http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...ostcount=33350.

The pilot jet: I recommend replacing it as a matter of course.

The float height: Using a float height setting tool, set it to it to 14.7mm.

More photos can be found over at http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347184.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:16 AM   #72927
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Noel View Post
Dear Procycle and motolab. I have a dyno jet needle and main jet with an opened air box and my bike runs like a charm with no detramental side affects that I can detect, Runs way better than it did in its standard configuration.
Just my two bobs worth.

regards Noel
Same here.
I think both Jeff and Derek have good points and both are right.
I can say that I could never get my DR to run well shimming the stock needle with any combination of jetting.

Sure, it ran, but I knew it wasn't it's best. But I think Derek was always talking about a NON USA OEM. These have notches ... unlike USA needle which are non adjustable. I think Derek also mentioned a few KTM needles as perhaps being a good fit to the DR.

The DJ needle has (for me) made a huge difference overall. I'm sure there are better needles ... and since my DJ needle now has about 35,000 miles on it, I'd be happy to try something else. My bike has never been dyno'd so all my assessments are "seat of the pants".

Derek, I'm in the Bay area ... if you can recommend a better needle I could buy ... I would try it out.

I can see some slight wear on my current DJ needle, but bike still runs strong; starts, idles well, around 50 MPG, 102 MPH (measured) top speed (prone) and power wheelies in 2nd gear ... no clutch.

155 main, stock Pilot, open air box top, Twin Air, stock muffler, 1/2 turn out on fuel/air screw, no header weld grind .... 50,000 miles. Throttle response on my bike could be crisper ... but not sure the DR motor is really ever a "crisp" revver. It's no Triumph Daytona after all.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:34 AM   #72928
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Same here.
I think both Jeff and Derek have good points and both are right.
I can say that I could never get my DR to run well shimming the stock needle with any combination of jetting.

Sure, it ran, but I knew it wasn't it's best. But I think Derek was always talking about a NON USA OEM. These have notches ... unlike USA needle which are non adjustable. I think Derek also mentioned a few KTM needles as perhaps being a good fit to the DR.

The DJ needle has (for me) made a huge difference overall. I'm sure there are better needles ... and since my DJ needle now has about 35,000 miles on it, I'd be happy to try something else. My bike has never been dyno'd so all my assessments are "seat of the pants".

Derek, I'm in the Bay area ... if you can recommend a better needle I could buy ... I would try it out.

I can see some slight wear on my current DJ needle, but bike still runs strong; starts, idles well, around 50 MPG, 102 MPH (measured) top speed (prone) and power wheelies in 2nd gear ... no clutch.

155 main, stock Pilot, open air box top, Twin Air, stock muffler, 1/2 turn out on fuel/air screw, no header weld grind .... 50,000 miles. Throttle response on my bike could be crisper ... but not sure the DR motor is really ever a "crisp" revver. It's no Triumph Daytona after all.
Does your bike have the airbox mod? What pipe does it have?

Regards,

Derek
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:48 AM   #72929
doug s.
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
Does your bike have the airbox mod? What pipe does it have?

Regards,

Derek
from his post:

"...open air box top, Twin Air, stock muffler, 1/2 turn out on fuel/air screw, no header weld grind..."

doug s.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #72930
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
from his post:

"...open air box top, Twin Air, stock muffler, 1/2 turn out on fuel/air screw, no header weld grind..."

doug s.
Right. That's embarrassing. Anyhow...

Well I guess that disqualifies the bike from the possibility of being the "definitive" candidate for tuning demonstration. However that certainly shouldn't be a reason not to tune it if that's what Mr. Grifter would like.

Regards,

Derek
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