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Old 01-15-2013, 08:52 PM   #4306
oalvarez
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NMExpat, what are the sag measurements of your bike? While you don't have any/many choices for the rear spring, it would give you a better idea as to which springs to buy for the front, and it's a good exercise to perform if you haven't already.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:53 PM   #4307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMEXPAT View Post

With some effort, I could correct these problems at the next service by installing the correct fork springs for my weight and increasing the amount of oil, by about 10mm. I'm on the fence about the oil weight 10 or 7. I just need more oil so it firms up for the last half of travel. At least this what I seem to remember what adding oil does to front suspensions.
How much do you weigh (perhaps I missed this)? I weigh about 200lbs and haven't experienced any of this on mine. Even a sport bike would "blow through" it's travel if you landed a wheelie hard.

I also haven't experienced excessive dive. There's an off ramp that I take that is down hill, fast and rolling dips in the middle of it. I find it's an excellent test of front suspension and have taken most bikes I've owned in the last ten years down it. On the Multi I hit it at about 90mph and absolutely bury the front. On most bikes this means once you get to the rollers the front end has nothing left and you often have to let off or take the pounding of a locked front end. The 'Strada just soaks it up - there seems to be an additional something even with the forks at the bottom of their stroke.

While it does dive more than a sportbike (duh) it's nothing compared to most "adventure" bikes. Even though I have the "cheap" Multi (no Ohlins) I don't think I've experienced a bike with such good suspension off the show room.

YMMV
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 AM   #4308
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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Hi NMEXPAT, thanks for your comments on the stock fork. Sounds like it works quite well.

I am leaning more and more towards picking up a 2013 base model. If the suspension is okay or better then I could ride it around quite happily while waiting for the Ohlins semi-active kit to come out. Then could decide whether to go for that package, or fit a manual Ohlins shock and a fork kit, or just the manual shock, or simply leave it alone (at least until the stock shock wears out).

The full Ohlins package obviously will be very good (even if not Skyhook), and of course could be removed and sold separately at new bike time, or likely removed and fitted to another Multi if/when Ducati releases a fresh upgrade.

BTW: from Ducati's promotional material on the web, it appears the 2013 base model will come with the same 85-125N/mm progressive rear spring that they are fitting to the Skyhook bikes. If they make that available as a spare part, it could be a good upgrade for prior-year base models.

On your fork dive thing, if it were me, I think I'd be going up a size on the front springs and sticking with the standard weight oil.

And I'd be simply riding around what brake dive remained. It is built into the design.

Sure, you can control it by adding so much spring that the fork behaves like a short-travel sport bike fork, but then you've got the height of the long-travel Multi without the plushness that the long travel provides. Or you can firm up the low-speed damping by adding viscosity, as you have, with a similar effect: less brake dive but harsh high-speed damping that jars you on sharpish hits.

As you have likely worked out, that is one conflict that Skyhook helps resolve.
It sounds like you and I are aligned quite closely. Just last night I received the most recent edition of road racing world, in which they reviewed the new Ohlins mechtronix (SP?) electric shock for the 2011-2012 ZX-10. It got very high marks. From reading this review, I've basically decided to wait and see if Ohlins does indeed come out with a new and upgraded electronci semi-active or active fork and shock combo or an old school manual combo.

Thanks for the tip about the progressive sping from the 2013 base MTS may fit a 2010. I didn't thnk of that. That might be a good option!

My original post about the base marzocchi forks may have sounded harsh to some inmates, but in reality this is the best set of forks I've had on a bike. My post was talking about some very nit picky details and trying to achieve a delicate balance with the long travel suspension, initially plush but got progressively firmer with an overweight rider in the seat.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:42 AM   #4309
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Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
NMExpat, what are the sag measurements of your bike? While you don't have any/many choices for the rear spring, it would give you a better idea as to which springs to buy for the front, and it's a good exercise to perform if you haven't already.
I haven't actually done this for my MTS. I've done this for my other bikes in the past. Up to this point, I just made small changes to the preload, front and rear, to get the right feel, over the past two years. Not entirely scientific. With my weight I know I need to upgrade the springs.

If it was a huge problem for me I would have done it already. I was trying to discuss the finer details of the base suspension. All things considered I'm very happy with it. I've never regrets about not buying an S or Touring version.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:55 AM   #4310
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Originally Posted by JNRobert View Post
How much do you weigh (perhaps I missed this)? I weigh about 200lbs and haven't experienced any of this on mine. Even a sport bike would "blow through" it's travel if you landed a wheelie hard.

I also haven't experienced excessive dive. There's an off ramp that I take that is down hill, fast and rolling dips in the middle of it. I find it's an excellent test of front suspension and have taken most bikes I've owned in the last ten years down it. On the Multi I hit it at about 90mph and absolutely bury the front. On most bikes this means once you get to the rollers the front end has nothing left and you often have to let off or take the pounding of a locked front end. The 'Strada just soaks it up - there seems to be an additional something even with the forks at the bottom of their stroke.

While it does dive more than a sportbike (duh) it's nothing compared to most "adventure" bikes. Even though I have the "cheap" Multi (no Ohlins) I don't think I've experienced a bike with such good suspension off the show room.

YMMV
I weigh 250+lbs with gear, not the skinny Italian test rider.

With the stock oil weight and factory preload and compression and rebound settings, I could easily lift the rear weel off the ground when moderately braking for a corner. I've increased the fork preload, oil weight and compression damping on the front so it doesn't dive as much and as fast - a more controlled dive motion. I can still lift the rear off the road but it's braking very very hard and very abruptly. Not as bad now.

It still does dive more than a typical short length suspension, it's just more reasonable now. I prefer a certain feel when loading the front for a corner, all about a personal preference.

Squating under acceleration in the rear was also reduced by adjusting the preload and comrpession damping. To keep it from rocking back and forth I also adjusted the rebound damping.

I'm very happy with the base suspension and fully agree with your last sentence. Just trying to achieve the feel I prefer from this bike with such long legs.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:39 AM   #4311
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Originally Posted by NMEXPAT View Post
I weigh 250+lbs with gear, not the skinny Italian test rider.

.
Your MTS is woefully undersprung. It might feel right to YOU but it's definitely undersprung and would probably ACT a lot better with the proper springs both front and rear. I promise you that the bike will handle MUCH better with the proper springs for your weight. Only trying to be of help.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #4312
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Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
Your MTS is woefully undersprung. It might feel right to YOU but it's definitely undersprung and would probably ACT a lot better with the proper springs both front and rear. I promise you that the bike will handle MUCH better with the proper springs for your weight. Only trying to be of help.
Spot on. I am in this category of rider, that is of superior proportions.

I felt from the first day that the front end was undersprung for me.
Good suspension is a matter of balance. I changed the front from the stock springs to the available heavier unit and did the same for the rear and lost nothing in respect to comfort or compliance the translation but gained increased control. You cannot make up for being under-sprung by increasing damping. You will sacrifice compliance.

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Old 01-17-2013, 04:01 AM   #4313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
Your MTS is woefully undersprung. It might feel right to YOU but it's definitely undersprung and would probably ACT a lot better with the proper springs both front and rear. I promise you that the bike will handle MUCH better with the proper springs for your weight. Only trying to be of help.
I agree completely. Proper suspension setup is key to knowing a bikes true capabilities. At 250+ once you get the bike properly sprung it will be like owning a new motorcycle. It will make a huge improvement.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:53 AM   #4314
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The first thing I noticed, on my first ride with my new MTS, was how soft the suspension was! I'm 235 in full gear (always ride in full RR leathers...& no, I'm not 'fat'...6'1"/34" waist) and after playing with it, I have a semi OK setting, but its not correct for a 10 day ride with the bike loaded. I called Dan Kyle Racing and bought the correct springs, but due to the weather (its 30 right now), I haven't swapped springs yet.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #4315
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Dammit, Janet.

I've been bitten, I think, by the leaky heads bug. Bike is in the shop awaiting final diagnosis, but they definitely believe it is 'excessive white smoke beyond that to be expected from condensation', which sounds like 'coolant' (based on other people's issues) to me.

At least it's dead cold here, I have the WR250, and I have the RC8R on the way as of today! Work is also too busy to really have any decent play time.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #4316
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Dammit, Janet.

I've been bitten, I think, by the leaky heads bug. Bike is in the shop awaiting final diagnosis, but they definitely believe it is 'excessive white smoke beyond that to be expected from condensation', which sounds like 'coolant' (based on other people's issues) to me.

At least it's dead cold here, I have the WR250, and I have the RC8R on the way as of today! Work is also too busy to really have any decent play time.
Had you taken your bike in previously for the coolant Service Bulletin?

-SM
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:12 PM   #4317
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Had you taken your bike in previously for the coolant Service Bulletin?

-SM
So do you think the problem is the coolant or the head casting?
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #4318
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So do you think the problem is the coolant or the head casting?
According to the current story coming out of Ducati, they determined that a machine that pre-filled the radiators had malfunctioned and was putting pure glycol into the rads vs a mix of water/glycol. Apparently over time the bikes that got the pure glycol had "bad things" happen (i.e. the glycol ate through the heads), and thus the SB (let's not call it a recall....even though I got a letter telling me to bring my bike in.....ahem.....). If true, I'd say the problem wasn't the infamous "porous heads" (there never was such a problem according to Ducati), but rather a poor mix of coolant. Net-net, if expat did NOT have his not-a-recall-on-the-coolant done, then he could have suffered the results. If he DID have it done, maybe it was too late and the evil glycol had already done it's dirty work. Either way, if his head/cylinder is toast, Ducati will likely be replacing it under warranty.

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Old 01-17-2013, 06:40 PM   #4319
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Had you taken your bike in previously for the coolant Service Bulletin?

-SM
That's a good question, Sock, but what worries me is that even if he did, the failure still occurred. If he didn't have the coolant changed, the rate of failure (it hasn't been all that long since they issued the service bulletin) was incredibly quick as well. Either way........

Hopefully the owner's bike is still under warranty and all will be well moving forward, or even better, the bike's bill of health comes back clean.

edit: funny, looks like we said the same thing (was in the kitchen cleaning up!)
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:53 PM   #4320
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Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
Had you taken your bike in previously for the coolant Service Bulletin?

-SM
I had; it's apparent the damage had been done already -- if it is the infamous coolant issue. Not confirmed yet, but I got it in at the first signs.

Oalvarez -- yes, still in warranty. 18.5k miles, which seems to be around the magic number. I'd have to go look to see if the coolant was replaced at the 15k service, though I think it was anyway.

SM -- hadn't heard the 'bad coolant batch'. Interesting.

For reference, bike is a 2011, bought in April 2011. As I said above, about 18.5k miles, with the only issue being the 'what rear brake' until this winter. Late last year had a random pinhole leak in the radiator, now excessive smoke

All services on time.
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