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Old 12-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #166
DDT Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMoto View Post
Yup, with Windoze. Probably a few months until the custom USB cable that will be needed to program, is available.

Now, if you have the original Version1 PDM60, I'm not sure that'll be programmable. Version2 will be, definitely.
Great news...how does one know which version we have...
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #167
COMESEEGO
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Goodbye Fuse and Relay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
Isn't the purpose of the PDM to get rid of extra relays?????????????
Yes, Yellow Pig, the PDM60 is suppose to eliminate fuse AND relay for 6 new 12V circuits!!!!
Off course with one limitation -> replacing fuses and relays ONLY UP TO 15AMP per circuit.

BTW:
Matt with MCI is doing a fine job of laying out the PDM60. www.youtube.com/watch?v=c83l-41RbjI
Straight forward!
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #168
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> The next 1000 lines were suppose to be short and clear, I hope you can follow it anyway. <


Hello John,
a very nice PDM60 thread you got running here. I'm not a PDM60 owner yet, but thanks to you, I'm in the 'layout' phase. Thanks! However, it does hurt to see that you're not using the PDM trigger function and that your 18Amp Stebel horn is messing up your current setup.

I haven't heard the R1200 horn yet, but the factory Bosch double horn (420/510Hz) on my 2004 R1150RT are super loud and only use a 7.5Amp! I never installed my own Stebel horn after I heard these two (yes, I had the horn before I got the bike but that's a different story). Check and listen if these or others will fill your db needs.

1. If so, use the PDM60 output1 directly with a new horn and connect the gray PDM trigger wire to your BMW horn button (I assume it also switches like on the R1150RT to ground). Clean setup -> Extra relay gone

I'm trying to figure out your Krista light (Krista v2 and earlier?) power module.
2. I guess your earlier 'Krista Answer' meant to eliminate the provided Krista FLIP SWITCH by connecting both red wires at the SWITCH itself together ('+12V to Switch RED' and 'Load'). -> Extra switch gone
3. Connect the thin red wire from the Krista Power Module to the violet AS6B trigger wire. The AS6B will now take over the 'ignition on' function for the Krista Power Module and will turn on the Krista Lights, because you bridged the 2 red switch wires earlier. Black AS6B wire ('blue' in your drawing) still goes to ground. -> Extra relay gone
4. You also had problems with your heated gear on 15Amp. With the above changes you could try to bridge the two now available 15Amp circuits for the heated gear. The reason I say 'try', is because one of the ciruit is instant off and the other 180sec delay off (correct?). Not an issue to run the gear but if you turn off your bike, with all your heated gear still running, one output will shut off correct instantly and the other (delayed) should turn red because of too much Amp now. Not sure if the PDM will eat this forever? -> Extra fuse and additional battery connection gone

With this new setup you would get away with:
(1) 15-amp external-switched to run your NEW horns
(2) 15-amp ignition-switched paired together to feed heated gear
(2) 5-amp ignition-switched paired together to feed my Krista aux lights AND AutoSwitch AS6B (*)
(1) 5-amp ignition-switched to feed GPS, iPhone, airjacket sensor

(*)Krista and AS hooked together to eliminate to many 'devils' in case of light failure. Devil = Krista, AutoSwitch or PDM60. If you connect the AutoSwitch with other equipment to a different 12V output, they could become faulty and cause that PDM output to turn off. At the same time your lights go out caused by missing power for the AutoSwitch.


Let us know what your next step is.
Joe

"effin' great schematic"
http://ewanwannabe.smugmug.com/photo..._YsepT-L-1.jpg
PDM60 diagram
http://www.rowe-electronics.com/wp-c...on-Manual1.pdf
AutoSwitch AS6B diagram
http://www.autoswitch.com/downloads/...tions_as6b.pdf
Krista Light diagram
http://clearwaterlights.com/download...%20earlier.pdf
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:58 PM   #169
COMESEEGO
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Trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I'm finishing my 2nd full year of use of my PDM60 with no major problems. I like this gadget.

My one issue is minor, but puzzling. The Green LED for one of my unused circuits (#3) stays on, even after the bike is turned off and all timers run out. I have three unused circuits, but only this one glows green - the others are fully off and dark.

Any ideas?
John,
Could this be the same 5Amp circuit you connected together with another 15Amp circuit for your 18Amp Stebel horn?
With the green LED on and the bike turned off, do you still measure +12V at this circuit (#3)?????
Joe
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #170
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Dunno - I'll check

Quote:
Originally Posted by COMESEEGO View Post
John,
Could this be the same 5Amp circuit you connected together with another 15Amp circuit for your 18Amp Stebel horn?
With the green LED on and the bike turned off, do you still measure +12V at this circuit (#3)?????
Joe
comeseego;
Thanks for the advice on the PDM60. I have been thinking about a rewire to simplify my setup as you have described. I can clearly get rid of the relay tied to the Kristas. The Autoswitch can talk directly to the Krista module.

For the Stebel horn, I'm not so sure. I think I'll need to bundle the two 15-amp circuits together or have a new PDM custom programmed with two 10-amp circuits to tie together.

It is frustrating that I still have too many direct connections to the battery and this fantastic power distribution module just 6 inches away!!

Also - I don't use my airbag sensor anymore, so my circuit will be simpler.

The main problem is: everything is working fine now and I'm reluctant to screw with it. The extra relays work just fine and I can't use that space for anything else. I'm inclined to let the sleeping dog lie.

Now - if Rowe upgrades the PDM to my recommendations, I may reconsider:
1) keep the battery tender connector (it came, and went.....)
2) integrate Clearwater's single-LED voltage monitor concept

I'd pony up again for one of these.

Also - you know we need pics of your schematic and installation. So let's get on with it!!!!
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:15 AM   #171
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It's not possible to connect a 5Amp + a 15Amp circuit together to get a 20Amp circuit. It's two 5's, two 15's. The PDM60 can also be programmed to do two, 10Amp circuits. Read the thorough description that we have here.

I have wired genuine Stebel horns to a 15Amp circuit on a PDM60 and it's been fine, so long as the voltage when the bike is running is up to snuff. The Chinese copies of the Stebel's seem to draw more current the the real McCoy, and could be an issue on a 15Amp PDM60 circuit.

I'm not sure which Krista harness you have - there have been several revisions/improvements over the last couple of years. I can help you with sorting out the wiring and cleaning things up, if you need.

With regards to the BMW horns, the factory horn conenctor always has ground present on the BROWN wire and +12 volts is switched to the horn on whatever the other color wire is. You definitely don't want to connect the PDM60 BLUE wire to trigger from the BMW horn lead.

BTW, we have a wiring kit that makes the PDM60 install much cleaner.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:53 PM   #172
COMESEEGO
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Of course do I want to see more input here and yes, I do like the PDM60. It does allow easy installation with less clutter.

However with John's LED issue, I don't think we end user can help, because we can't determine, if a malfunctioning PDM is save to use.
The fastest way to test PDM vs wiring, is to have John disconnect the 8 wire output plug from his old PDM60 version (not available on the new one). Biggest surprise would be the green LED #3 is still on with only battery cable connected to the PDM and the bike turned off.
I would like to know, if the safety function still works. Does the output #3 still turn off in case of a short (red LED). But I'm NOT asking you to check it, while the PDM is still connected to your bike! - Maybe Adam comes back with a magic reset procedure or a better idea.

BTW my Stebel horn from Twisted Throttle is also using up to 18Amp at 12 Volt. The included diagram shows a 20Amp fuse. The Nautilus horn information is on the Stebel website (www.stebel.it/public/stebel.pdf).
https://plus.google.com/photos/10062...72879115374081

Adam you mentioned not to use the blue trigger wire with the turn-signal-cancel button. Would the plus voltage damage the PDM? How would you go about using the cancel button and PDM trigger to operate a horn (15Amp max)?

Regards, Joe

COMESEEGO screwed with this post 01-15-2013 at 06:52 PM Reason: continue
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:53 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COMESEEGO View Post
Of course do I want to see more input here and yes, I do like the PDM60. It does allow easy installation with less clutter.

However with John's LED issue, I don't think we end user can help, because we can't determine, if a malfunctioning PDM is save to use.
The fastest way to test PDM vs wiring, is to have John disconnect the 8 wire output plug from his old PDM60 version (not available on the new one). Biggest surprise would be the green LED #3 is still on with only battery cable connected to the PDM and the bike turned off.
I would like to know, if the safety function still works. Does the output #3 still turn off in case of a short (red LED). But I'm NOT asking you to check it, while the PDM is still connected to your bike! - Maybe Adam comes back with a magic reset procedure or a better idea.

BTW my Stebel horn from Twisted Throttle is also using up to 18Amp at 12 Volt. The included diagram shows a 20Amp fuse. The Nautilus horn information is on the Stebel website (www.stebel.it/public/stebel.pdf).
https://plus.google.com/photos/10062...72879115374081

Adam you mentioned not to use the blue trigger wire with the turn-signal-cancel button. Would the plus voltage damage the PDM? How would you go about using the cancel button and PDM trigger to operate a horn (15Amp max)?

Regards, Joe
It is possible to have PDM60 circuits programmed for constant power and that one circuit could possibly be set that way - or stuck that way, I guess - although I've not seen that happen. If it's a concern, returning the PDM60 to Rowe for a quick evaluation is probably the best bet. If there's an issue with it, they will take care of it quickly.

The blue wire is a high impedance input intended for a GROUND trigger. Ground it, and the associated circuit(s) will output 12 volts. BMW horns have ground present all the time, and 12 volts is switched to the horn, so to get ground from the horn circuit, a relay is needed.

Make sense?
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:22 PM   #174
COMESEEGO
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Horn Trigger

Me:
1. If so, use the PDM60 output1 directly with a new horn and connect the gray (no, I meant blue) PDM trigger wire to your BMW horn button (I assume it also switches like on the R1150RT to ground). Clean setup -> Extra relay gone
-----------------------------------------
Adam:
With regards to the BMW horns, the factory horn connector always has ground present on the BROWN wire and +12 volts is switched to the horn on whatever the other color wire is. You definitely don't want to connect the PDM60 BLUE wire to trigger from the BMW horn lead.
...
The blue wire is a high impedance input intended for a GROUND trigger. Ground it, and the associated circuit(s) will output 12 volts. BMW horns have ground present all the time, and 12 volts is switched to the horn, so to get ground from the horn circuit, a relay is needed. Make sense?
-----------------------------------------

Hello Adam,
Maybe the drawing will show what I mean. (The BMW horn circuit is from a 2001up BMW R1150RT wiring diagram) Without pressing the horn button the connection point of the blue PDM wire at the BMW Horn Relay is high (+12V) but when the horn button is pressed the connection point is pulled to ground. Shouldn't this work with an additional horn connected to the PDM60 output #1?
Regards, Joe







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Old 01-19-2013, 10:41 PM   #175
RocketMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COMESEEGO View Post
Me:
1. If so, use the PDM60 output1 directly with a new horn and connect the gray (no, I meant blue) PDM trigger wire to your BMW horn button (I assume it also switches like on the R1150RT to ground). Clean setup -> Extra relay gone
-----------------------------------------
Adam:
With regards to the BMW horns, the factory horn connector always has ground present on the BROWN wire and +12 volts is switched to the horn on whatever the other color wire is. You definitely don't want to connect the PDM60 BLUE wire to trigger from the BMW horn lead.
...
The blue wire is a high impedance input intended for a GROUND trigger. Ground it, and the associated circuit(s) will output 12 volts. BMW horns have ground present all the time, and 12 volts is switched to the horn, so to get ground from the horn circuit, a relay is needed. Make sense?
-----------------------------------------

Hello Adam,
Maybe the drawing will show what I mean. (The BMW horn circuit is from a 2001up BMW R1150RT wiring diagram) Without pressing the horn button the connection point of the blue PDM wire at the BMW Horn Relay is high (+12V) but when the horn button is pressed the connection point is pulled to ground. Shouldn't this work with an additional horn connected to the PDM60 output #1?
Regards, Joe







Aha! Got it. Picture's worth 10,000 words...

That'll work fine. So long as you connect the blue PDM60 wire to the ground side of the relay coil that is applied by the switch, what you want to do will work.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:31 AM   #176
BruceWA
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Still considering the PDM60, BUT seem to be having second thoughts about actually making the purchase. Several good buys available for the Fuzeblock now.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:33 PM   #177
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The Fuzeblock is way cheaper and will work, if you don't need all the Amp-power and the other PDM features.

PDM60 versus Fuzeblock FZ-1

-both have 6 outputs
-both do max. 60Amp, BUT the PDM does 60 switched "or" 60 constant "or" mixed, as for the FZ it only does 30 switched "and" 30 constant
-PDM does max. 15Amp per output, while the FZ max. 10Amp
-PDM comes standard with 3x 5Amp, 3x 15Amp but can be programed at factory in 0.25 increments from 1 to 15Amp, with the FZ you select thru Mini ATM fuses (2, 3, 4, 5, 7.5, 10Amp) at home
-only the PDM has a Power-On-Delay feature for 6sec for all outputs
-only the PDM has a Power-Off-Delay feature for 180sec for 2 outputs (changeable at factory for others)
-only the PDM has one switchable output per trigger wire to ground
-only the PDM lets you check circuit status via LED (on, standby, fault)
-the PDM resets a faulty circuit by engine off/on, with the FZ you need to check and/or replace a fuse (6 of them; therefor the FZ-1 needs to be accessible)
-the electronics/internals of the PDM are fully encapsulated, on the FZ they are not
-both are Made in USA
-PDM goes for $149.95 (+S/H) and the FZ for $83.99 (+S/H)
-PDM - 'Length': 3", 'Width': 2", 'Height': 0.9"
-FZ - 'Length': 3.314", 'Width': 2.467", 'Height': 1.286" w/standoffs

Accessory Ground Wire:
-with the PDM60 accessory gets directly connected to the bike ground, not back to the PDM.
-the Fuzeblock installation manual mentions to connect each accessory-ground with the FZ-ground-output.

Fuzeblock
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php?pid=11#fz1
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/docs/fz-1-installation.pdf

PDM60
http://www.rowe-electronics.com/modu...on-Manual1.pdf
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:35 PM   #178
BruceWA
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And of course with the Fuzeblock you can replace blown fuses, with the PDM60 no fuses....if it fails you just remove it and send it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by COMESEEGO View Post
The Fuzeblock is way cheaper and will work, if you don't need all the Amp-power and the other PDM features.

PDM60 versus Fuzeblock FZ-1

-both have 6 outputs
-both do max. 60Amp, BUT the PDM does 60 switched "or" 60 constant "or" mixed, as for the FZ it only does 30 switched "and" 30 constant
-PDM does max. 15Amp per output, while the FZ max. 10Amp
-PDM comes standard with 3x 5Amp, 3x 15Amp but can be programed at factory in 0.25 increments from 1 to 15Amp, with the FZ you select thru Mini ATM fuses (2, 3, 4, 5, 7.5, 10Amp) at home
-only the PDM has a Power-On-Delay feature for 6sec for all outputs
-only the PDM has a Power-Off-Delay feature for 180sec for 2 outputs (changeable at factory for others)
-only the PDM has one switchable output per trigger wire to ground
-only the PDM lets you check circuit status via LED (on, standby, fault)
-the PDM resets a faulty circuit by engine off/on, with the FZ you need to check and/or replace a fuse (6 of them; therefor the FZ-1 needs to be accessible)
-the electronics/internals of the PDM are fully encapsulated, on the FZ they are not
-both are Made in USA
-PDM goes for $149.95 (+S/H) and the FZ for $83.99 (+S/H)
-PDM - 'Length': 3", 'Width': 2", 'Height': 0.9"
-FZ - 'Length': 3.314", 'Width': 2.467", 'Height': 1.286" w/standoffs

Accessory Ground Wire:
-with the PDM60 accessory gets directly connected to the bike ground, not back to the PDM.
-the Fuzeblock installation manual mentions to connect each accessory-ground with the FZ-ground-output.

Fuzeblock
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php?pid=11#fz1
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/docs/fz-1-installation.pdf

PDM60
http://www.rowe-electronics.com/modu...on-Manual1.pdf
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:44 PM   #179
COMESEEGO
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Well, not exactly. If the device itself fails (FZ or PDM) , you would remove and send back both of them. The 6 fuses on the FZ are only for the connected accessories.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:56 PM   #180
BruceWA
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There are no solid state devices or chips in the fuzeblock to fail, the other parts are extremely unlikely to fail. On the other hand the PDM60 is all solid state with the exception of the wiring . The idea of installing a device and then having to remove it because it fails is not my idea of time well spent with my bike.
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