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Old 01-20-2013, 04:42 AM   #15781
RideFreak
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Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achile View Post
Hey!

Sorry to bug you, but I have a problem that's driving me crazy!
I overhauled the top end of my piggy(piston rings, valves, seats, springs, camshaft bearings...you get the idea).
I dismantled the carb, cleaned it, set the level, needle setting(the needle is new)...etc.
1) the bike starts very hard
2) when it starts, the idle goes wild(from normal to 3000 revs)
3) very litle response from the air screw(new as well)
4) when I rev it, it dies after releasing the throtle
I suspect an air leak due to worn carb body and throtle valve(the only thing I didn't check). The intake boot is new.

I had this problem before the top end work, but it intensified after. More vacum/compression=more air leaking => leaner mixture??

I found crf 450 carburetors(FCR 41) on ebay. I'm thinking about buying one.


What say you?

Thank you,
Alex
Hanging idle is usally too tight of cables or the valves are too tight. When the cables are too tight the work against each other to hold the slide up for a period of time, when it does come down the other adjustments may be off not letting it idle. Check the freeplay at the grip and make sure it will rotate back and forth a little bit (ensuring they aren't too tight) To check for a cable prob forcebly close the throttle after a rev so the push cable pulls the slide down, if the revs drops down immediately then it's a cable issue.

If the valves are too tight it makes all kinds of wierd running cond including hanging idle and failure to idle. I've seen some pretty worn carbs that had no adverse effect on the running, I'm sure that could happen esp since we can't really see how bad the carb is but it'd be very unusual.

It's not uncommon for the valves to settle in the head a good bit right after a topend job, that would cause them to tighten up relatively quickly. Tight valves = hard starting also. Im thinking that's the issue.
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
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RideFreak screwed with this post 01-20-2013 at 04:51 AM
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:24 AM   #15782
achile
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Location: Brasov, Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
Hanging idle is usally too tight of cables or the valves are too tight. When the cables are too tight the work against each other to hold the slide up for a period of time, when it does come down the other adjustments may be off not letting it idle. Check the freeplay at the grip and make sure it will rotate back and forth a little bit (ensuring they aren't too tight) To check for a cable prob forcebly close the throttle after a rev so the push cable pulls the slide down, if the revs drops down immediately then it's a cable issue.

If the valves are too tight it makes all kinds of wierd running cond including hanging idle and failure to idle. I've seen some pretty worn carbs that had no adverse effect on the running, I'm sure that could happen esp since we can't really see how bad the carb is but it'd be very unusual.

It's not uncommon for the valves to settle in the head a good bit right after a topend job, that would cause them to tighten up relatively quickly. Tight valves = hard starting also. Im thinking that's the issue.

The cable is new and oiled, freeplay is fine, valve clearence is in specs, timing is fine. I started the bike with a makeshift gas tank, without the cable. The bike revs itself up, dosen't respond to air screw movement.
It's driving me crazy.

Update:
Went to the garage, took off the carb.
-the throtle valve rotates around it's center(left-right) and the lower gap changes in size
-the valve has a bit of play and can rattle back and forth
-the levers that operate the throtle valve are worn

I will take the carb apart and check the extent of the wear.

achile screwed with this post 01-20-2013 at 05:58 AM
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:43 PM   #15783
jm-2008
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Carby problem

ACHILE -

-the throtle valve rotates around it's center(left-right) and the lower gap changes in size

This make me wonder if the slide has not been placed correctly on its alignment pin.
If in the correct position you should not be able to rotate the slide.
This will effectively hold it open causing it to rev like mad and not respond to air screw.
Remove the top cover and rotate the slide till it finds the alignment pin.
If set correctly the slides cutaway will be on the intake (air filter side)


JM-2008
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:02 PM   #15784
Cpt. Ron
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Location: Sacramento, CA
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Edlebrock pump part

There has been obvious concern with Edlebrock not providing replacement parts for their pumper carburetor. One difficult part to source is the cup on the accelerator pump, especially if the bike sits for length of time with ethanol fuel left in it. I don't have a source yet for an exact part, but I have found out that it is a 1/2" diameter cup. Similar to what is found here:

http://quadrajetparts.com/rochester-...ly-p-1056.html

Or here:

http://www.mikescarburetor.com/Holle...up_p_1060.html

Good hunting.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #15785
Unsung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Ron View Post
When in gear and you pull in the clutch lever, you say "nothing". What do you mean exactly? Does the rear wheel not spin? The clutch rod shouldn't be affected by the transmission gear position when you install it. It just transfers the action through the motor to the clutch pack.
I read that it should be in Neutral when installed the push rod so that it is properly seated. I put the bike in gear and pull the clutch and it will not roll. I had the clutch discs out, oiled each pieces separately and stuck them in one at a time, then poured a bit more oil at the top so it would go in between the discs.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:35 PM   #15786
larryboy
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Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsung View Post
I put the bike in gear and pull the clutch and it will not roll.

That's how a wet clutch works, go for a ride.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:01 PM   #15787
Unsung
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Thank the lord, I think that is the problem. I ran it for 30 seconds to check the oil, about to top it off. After I ran it I put it in gear and clutch it, and if I rock it twice it breaks loose and rolls good. I am trying to top this oil off, I've put 1 quart and a 1/4 in it just about, and it stays on the bottom centimeter of the dipstick. Every time I add more, it doesn't move. I think maybe if I start it I'll get better results? My question is, from the bottom of the dipstick to the upper mark, how much oil fills that gap? Another question I have is with the chain. I put a new chain on it, used a tool to rivet the masterlink in. One side of the masterlink is a little tighter I guess, because it's not letting the chain flex at that pivot point as easily as the rest of the chain, is this a problem? I can make it flex if I grab it and do it.

I've put so much new stuff on this thing, can't wait to ride it. It had a silencer in the pipe that was probably robbing it of a lot of power. I went from a 48t to a 43t rear sprocket. Has new streetable tires on it as opposed to the dirtbike ones it had before. Riding this thing tomorrow will probably feel like a completely different bike.

On a side note, I had a problem with my clutch handle sticking when I clutched it 100% sometimes, I just realised it's the handguard bracket catching the end of the lever when it's fully compressed.

Unsung screwed with this post 01-20-2013 at 04:09 PM
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:31 PM   #15788
larryboy
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Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsung View Post
I am trying to top this oil off, I've put 1 quart and a 1/4 in it just about, and it stays on the bottom centimeter of the dipstick.

After a quick oil/filter change I just dump in 1.5 quarts to get me started. Check the oil with the engine idling is how I do it, about .5 from the bottom mark to the top. If you really work at it you can get the full 2.1 quarts out of the thing if you don't rush the oil change.

Get a sight glass kit for peace of mind, riding down the road you can just clutch it and let it idle, glance down and check the oil level.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:39 PM   #15789
brucifer
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Location: Eureka, Ca.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achile View Post
The cable is new and oiled, freeplay is fine, valve clearence is in specs, timing is fine. I started the bike with a makeshift gas tank, without the cable. The bike revs itself up, dosen't respond to air screw movement.
It's driving me crazy.

Update:
Went to the garage, took off the carb.
-the throtle valve rotates around it's center(left-right) and the lower gap changes in size
-the valve has a bit of play and can rattle back and forth
-the levers that operate the throtle valve are worn

I will take the carb apart and check the extent of the wear.
That internal linkage was the source of hanging idle on my last 650R. I bought all new linkage components, installed them and the hanging idle was completely gone.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:21 PM   #15790
Cpt. Ron
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Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsung View Post
Thank the lord, I think that is the problem. I ran it for 30 seconds to check the oil, about to top it off. After I ran it I put it in gear and clutch it, and if I rock it twice it breaks loose and rolls good. I am trying to top this oil off, I've put 1 quart and a 1/4 in it just about, and it stays on the bottom centimeter of the dipstick. Every time I add more, it doesn't move. I think maybe if I start it I'll get better results? My question is, from the bottom of the dipstick to the upper mark, how much oil fills that gap? Another question I have is with the chain. I put a new chain on it, used a tool to rivet the masterlink in. One side of the masterlink is a little tighter I guess, because it's not letting the chain flex at that pivot point as easily as the rest of the chain, is this a problem? I can make it flex if I grab it and do it.
I've found the bike needs to be really warm to get an accurate oil reading. I'm talking like at least a ten minute ride, if not more. Just idling in your driveway isn't enough to get it warm and circulated. If you top off the oil when it's not warmed up, you'll end up with too much. From the minimum to maximum mark, I believe it's only 0.5 liters if memory serves me correctly. I've found that after doing a filter and oil change, if I fill the "tank" up to the very maximum when cold, it's good enough to run to get it warm to then get a final level check.

As for you master link, I'd run it but keep an eye on it. You won't be able to loosen it up after riveting it too tight, but you can replace it later if it doesn't loosen up.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:47 PM   #15791
Unsung
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Joined: Nov 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
After a quick oil/filter change I just dump in 1.5 quarts to get me started. Check the oil with the engine idling is how I do it, about .5 from the bottom mark to the top. If you really work at it you can get the full 2.1 quarts out of the thing if you don't rush the oil change.

Get a sight glass kit for peace of mind, riding down the road you can just clutch it and let it idle, glance down and check the oil level.
Good idea. I realised how cold it was outside, so I let it run until the clutch cover got nice and warm, then checked it, and I'm good to go.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:56 PM   #15792
RideFreak
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Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucifer View Post
That internal linkage was the source of hanging idle on my last 650R. I bought all new linkage components, installed them and the hanging idle was completely gone.
__________________
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
CL Adventure Ride 2013 /CL Revisited 2014 / 700 Miles of Scenic Utah Backcountry / MY VIDEOS / RIDEFREAK TV
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:11 PM   #15793
achile
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Location: Brasov, Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm-2008 View Post
ACHILE -

-the throtle valve rotates around it's center(left-right) and the lower gap changes in size

This make me wonder if the slide has not been placed correctly on its alignment pin.
If in the correct position you should not be able to rotate the slide.
This will effectively hold it open causing it to rev like mad and not respond to air screw.
Remove the top cover and rotate the slide till it finds the alignment pin.
If set correctly the slides cutaway will be on the intake (air filter side)


JM-2008
The valve has a gap cut into it for the arm...I saw no guiding pin, but the holes and the axels of the linkage are enlarged and I think this is the problem. The right-left movement has a lot of amplitude.


@ Brucifer

Did it start easyer?
Did it respond to the air screw adjustments before/after?

achile screwed with this post 01-21-2013 at 12:44 AM
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:12 AM   #15794
RideFreak
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
Oddometer: 6,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by achile View Post
The valve has a gap cut into it for the arm...I saw no guiding pin, but the holes and the axels of the linkage are enlarged and I think this is the problem. The right-left movement has a lot of amplitude.


@ Brucifer

Did it start easyer?
Did it respond to the air screw adjustments before/after?
I think the side to side is normal, up-n-down is a different story.
__________________
Chris
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but to rather skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ... Holy Shit, what a ride!"
CL Adventure Ride 2013 /CL Revisited 2014 / 700 Miles of Scenic Utah Backcountry / MY VIDEOS / RIDEFREAK TV
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #15795
brucifer
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Location: Eureka, Ca.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achile View Post
The valve has a gap cut into it for the arm...I saw no guiding pin, but the holes and the axels of the linkage are enlarged and I think this is the problem. The right-left movement has a lot of amplitude.


@ Brucifer

Did it start easyer?
Did it respond to the air screw adjustments before/after?
My bike was pretty close to spot on with the jetting and float adjustment so it always started easy before and after. The mixture screw worked fine before and after as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I think the side to side is normal, up-n-down is a different story.
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