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Old 01-20-2013, 07:33 PM   #16
crofrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
They work pretty good as they are from the factory.
until a rock punchs a hole through the skid plate and case, or the side stand grounds hard and cracks the cases...
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #17
Katoom72
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Originally Posted by Wantajustride View Post
Have you ridden both?

I struggle with short test rides. A rider just can't get a real feel for a bike in only a few short miles. But after owning my 990 R for about 5 months now I know for me it was the right choice. I think cost and the type of riding a person is buying the bike for, is the reason some would choose the 990 over the Triumph and some wouldn't.

I'm not knockin' the 800 XC,, it's a great bike. A very refined triple cylinder motor, likely, one of the smoothest motors built. Several friends of mine own one and they all seem very happy with the bike. In fact one of my friends whom I respect very much didn't like the 990 due to the fact that it didn't have enough gauges on the dash cluster. I mean,, come on no "Fuel" gauge on a $14,000 ADV bike?


I prefer some of my motorcycles to be just a tad bit truculent.

WJR
All they have is a blinking light + tripmeter, like any other KTM out there, and that's more then enough. If you're going out on an adventure trip you take back-up fuel with you anyway.
Fuel gauges are for SUV soccer moms that put diesel in their petrol car.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #18
Katoom72
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
To be fair to the triumph, bigger doesn't always mean better and showa in general make pretty damn good forks.
Talking off the showroom floor here, the stock WP feels way better then the stock Showa off the 800xc IMO. Not saying Showa is bad, at all. On 450s the stock Showa feels better then stock WP's to me.
(been so for years actually, the reason why KTM/WP has not stepped up in that department beats me)


Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Or you need stiffer springs and different valving, but more travel is always a good thing.
Again, off the showroom floor. 90% off the 'weekend fun riding with mates' people never toutch their springs or valving. It's only when they go towards (off-)road racing/trackday purposes the suspension upgrades kick in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
I dont know anything about the triumph hand guards or skid plate, but the plastic handgaurds the ktm comes with aren't tough enough for hard off-roading with a bike has heavy as the 9x0, and the factory skid while not entirely worthless needs to go for rock solid protection.
Id go with the stock KTM guards and bashplate off-road. The Triumph would be needing an upgrade for my peace of mind. It's very sub-par for off-road IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Damn straight.


I'm not dissing the Triumph, at all. Just pointing out the KTM comes more rigid straight off the showroom floor. A big bike that's more dirt oriented needs to be decked out a bit stronger, and that results in a higher cost.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:50 PM   #19
Wantajustride
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crofrog has some valid points. I think those reasons are why some go with the Triumph.


A couple things he failed to mention,
wind protection, IMHO (sorry 990 fans) the 990 has virtually none.
Don't forget the side stand bracket,, if not relocated could be a spendy repair.

I'd still rather ride my 990R

WJR
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:50 PM   #20
crofrog
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Originally Posted by Katoom72 View Post
Talking off the showroom floor here, the stock WP feels way better then the stock Showa off the 800xc IMO. Not saying Showa is bad, at all. On 450s the stock Showa feels better then stock WP's to me.
Yeah most of my experience comes from the 450's although i ride ktm's with wp's the showa's felt better until very recently (2010ish).

Quote:
Id go with the stock KTM guards and bashplate off-road. The Triumph would be needing an upgrade for my peace of mind. It's very sub-par for off-road IMO.
Cool, I dont really think the stock ktm ones are bad ass but I'll take your word for the triumph stuff.


Fear not i still think the ktm is better than any of the other adventure bikes out there if you care about dirt performance at all. In the right conditions the 950 is amazing I've ridden around and past more than few small dirt bikes on forest roads and 2 track.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:11 PM   #21
Katoom72
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Yeah most of my experience comes from the 450's although i ride ktm's with wp's the showa's felt better until very recently (2010ish).
YEah they got better but still, they lack in that part on the 450s. But even a Showa is prone to a revalve anyway. (for me atleast)


Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Cool, I dont really think the stock ktm ones are bad ass but I'll take your word for the triumph stuff.
Compared to the Triumph i feel they actually are badass. If u ever get the chance to check on a stock 800xc keep an eye on those points. They could have done a bit better there. (not saying KTM couldnt have done any better either)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Fear not i still think the ktm is better than any of the other adventure bikes out there if you care about dirt performance at all. In the right conditions the 950 is amazing I've ridden around and past more than few small dirt bikes on forest roads and 2 track.
Oh, but i would not fear u would think any different then that.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:33 PM   #22
Academy OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wantajustride View Post
crofrog has some valid points. I think those reasons are why some go with the Triumph.


Don't forget the side stand bracket,, if not relocated could be a spendy repair.

I'd still rather ride my 990R

WJR
Would somebody please add the link ( I am sure there must be one) w the details on the side stand bracket issue
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:40 PM   #23
crofrog
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Originally Posted by Academy View Post
Would somebody please add the link ( I am sure there must be one) w the details on the side stand bracket issue
The stock side stand bolts to the engine that's bad mmkay


so either get this
http://www.dualsportwarehouse.com/CJ...ET-CJD-KRK.htm

or this
http://blackdogcw.com/black-dog-shop...90-detail.html

read this for the argument over which is better.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644505
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:25 PM   #24
Ramv
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Another example. My KTM was half the price of my Ducati despite only 5 k miles. The KTM has . Better brakes, better power, better suspension, same tach ( both don't hav a functional one). Better throttle response, better tires better wheels better accessories. I know the triumph is supposed to be better then the Duc but I suspect it isn't close to the KTM.


And for the reliability crowd, the KTM has been much better than my KLR and XRs . Only the Superhawk made it this man miles (albeit with more maintenance ) without repairs.

I have spent about 1k on the KTM for brackets, skid plates, aux fuel tank and a luggage rack but still the best value in bikes I hav had.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:09 AM   #25
rossguzzi
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One thing that stuck out as a bad idea on the Trumpy 800 is the rear foot rests bracket is welded to the frame. If it decks the ground hard I can see a written off frame. More serious off road bikes have bolt on brackets. With luck the bracket would break in a fall.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:12 AM   #26
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I had a BMW R1200GS for 3 years. Spent lots of $$ trying to make it the dual-sport I thought it should be. As it is, I took it places it really wasn't intended to go. I ride every day, rain or shine, and after a while, it just got boring.
Test rode the 990 and it was immediately apparent that this was built by folks who just have a different mindset about how an adventure bike should ride. It comes stock with all the right stuff. I added crash bars and luggage racks, that's all it needed. One thing's for damn sure, it's never a boring ride.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:16 AM   #27
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Well said Cyath,

All manufacturers and models have a different idea on "What" makes their bike better than the competition. IMO,, BMW started the so called "Adventure" market.

But how many of us rode or borrowed a friends old briggs and stratton 5 hp mini bike out in a vacant lot somewhere near our house? At the time, that was "Adventure" riding to us and we loved it. For some of us, it was a very long time ago, long before any bike manufacturer even conceived the title of "ADV Bike". Now they all have one.

So the burden lye with the end user,,, Which model/make to ride home on. However, some machines will put a much larger smile on your face than others. Take it from a guy who used to ride a 650 V-Strom.

You just can't make comparisons between certain bikes. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they both have only 2 wheels.

WJR
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:22 AM   #28
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Definition of Value...

Before buttering up to the KTM Adventure, you have to hand it to Triumph for stepping to the plate. They really did a fantastic job putting together a product that adds a price point alternative to the midsized adventure touring market. For the rider seeking a bike that can commute between pavement and the occassional fireroad, has a smooth motor for longer distances... and an overall acceptible package of chassis. And at a fair price. This is certainly an alternative choice out there... especially if you live and ride near their dealer network.

But make no mistake, this is in a different class then the KTM Adventure. The reason the Adventure is priced higher is it has a more sophisticated builder/ rider envolvement with greater performance and durability expectations.

The KTM Adventure involved sophisticated and skilled rider input during it's development and was tested in the Dakar Rally where it placed first. All of this input was used to help develop the first generation 950 which was very close to the release of the production line models. And since it's first release in 2003, KTM has continued with the same basic design adding constant refinements to make it as reliable and smooth as possible to date.

In fact, the ride of the earlier models is very similar to the newest versions, just requiring more feedback. The newest models show refinement in every area of the bike... from smoother braking, to smoother engine refinement, smoother fuel response, better tuned suspensions, better dash arrangement. All subtle improvements to what was already a fantastic bike build on it's original release.

This design success of the KTM Adventure has to be credited to a company's intent to collaborate with very talented and committed riders, along with talented manufacturing engineers and designers... all coming together to combine the proper blend of form meeting function. And directing their attention of developing a bike to handle a certain type of difficult terrain.

Now, granted not everyone is going to push a KTM Adventure to the peak of it's design characteristics. And I'm sure very few have. But when you have the pleasure of riding one, and an even greater luxury of owning one... you will feel that design pedigree and potential of the bike every single time you get on the seat, period! KTM added the additional value of their design expenses into the price tag of the KTM Adventure which makes it slightly higher then the Triumph.

However most KTM Adventure owners, myself included, would consider the value expense added to the KTM Adventure to be "priceless".

And like all mass production manufacturers, the bean counters at KTM also played their part in the final production, in trying to keep the overall "sticker price" manageable in the world market.

The stock skidplate and handguards are budget items, clearly meant to keep the overhead down. You can certainly get away with these in the short term, as I did for the first few seasons before upgrading. And the bike continues to beckon more upgrades to refine it's niche... An auxillary rear fuel tank to extend it's desertion range into the 200 mile distance. Performance opportunities abound with exhaust choices and smog removals, all simple yet effective options for performance boosting, refining speed, sound and feel of the motor.



And choosing luggage is one of the alluring evolutions of the bike at the point where the rider learns to expand the long range touring and traveling capabilities of the bike. At this point you are experiencing the truly unleashed pleasures of owning this bike... getting it out on long distance rides where you can open the bike up and enjoy it's fine tuning for lengthy rides in out of the way places. Dirt roads, jeep trails, wagon roads, forest service trails, gravel routes. This bike is perfect for the long, off the beaten path journey.

And when you're 200 miles from no-where, the additional price paid for "VALUE" is insignificant compared to the enjoyment and security of ownership.

This is just my humble and obviously biased opinion, of course.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:01 AM   #29
rossguzzi
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I was just about to say that !


Seriously, that sums it up soooo well.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:07 PM   #30
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Last April I was facing the same choice....what adventure bike to buy. Been a loyal Honda guy for most all of my motorcycle purchaces, but Honda does not offer anything stateside in this category so I entered the search w/o brand loyalty.
First rode the Yamaha. Felt good. Thought that was the one.
Next rode the KTM 990 (regular). Liked it better than the Yamaha because it felt like I was sitting aboard my 450X but better suited for the road.
Lastly, I rode the 800XC. Although very fast (in upper revs) and cool looking, it did nothing for me and I turned around after only 10 minutes knowing this bike wasn't what I was looking for after riding the KTM. Primarily, no tourqe and limited wind protection sealed it's fate compared to the KTM.
The KTM felt like a big-boys toy compared to the buzzy Triumph.
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