Finally someone's listening... and it's NOT KTM...

[GodSilla]

Dump the tin cans from the back and I reckon this could be OK, with a couple of mods.
17 litres is a bit light-on though, my trusty old XR carries 21 litres. 24 litres seems to be a goodlier amount (semi-random number chosen because it "feels" right/adventurous).
For the long straights, just go slower eh. It's not being touted as "ready to race" . I tend to plod along below the speed limit on my trusty XR, sometimes well below it if there is no traffic, and it feels very relaxing to do so. It doesn't seem to add that much more time to a trip, significantly.

[outback jack]

Originally Posted by philth

so where do you ride a bike like this?
and whats its advantage over a dr/husky/klr
if i rode it to birdsville would it need a rebuild in windorah?

Possibly a 3 hour ride in Victoria anything longer COULD COST MONEY.

[XRman]

I have been waiting for a WR450R with a 6 speed gearbox.

All the while I have been playing with my DRZ400 to get it to be a do it all type bike. As it is it fits my needs except for the 5 speed close ratio gearbox that is currently being changed with the USA sourced ACT gear set.

If this bike is not excessively heavy, has good susupension and either WR 5 speed or 6 speed ( better) gearbox, I think it will sell.

[prestonpaul]

Originally Posted by GodSilla

17 litres is a bit light-on though, my trusty old XR carries 21 litres. 24 litres seems to be a goodlier amount

Depends on how thirsty the engine is. 17 liters might be too small for a carbed 650. but may be just right for an injected 450.
Having said that I am not sure a 450 would be the answer for long distance desert blasting, but it would probably be just the shot for a weekend of high country riding, I guess it could be worse, it could be a 125

[The Bigfella]

Originally Posted by philth

so where do you ride a bike like this?
and whats its advantage over a dr/husky/klr
if i rode it to birdsville would it need a rebuild in windorah?

Perfect for Asia.

Even the transit stages don't need more than 95 kph and they don't last long.

In Laos, you see heaps of big bikes at tourist places full of fly-in tourists... but they all seem to stick to the bitumen in between. This thing looks ideal for the remoter areas.

[It'sNotTheBike]

Originally Posted by philth

am i missing something?
i cant think of anything worse than a 450 for long haul rides
when you hit those long straight roads its gotta be big bore or multi cylinder

Agreed !

If you dig down deep enough to find the truth, you will realize that the idea of
a 450 "adventure" bike is an attempt to mimic what the pro riders are using in
the Dakar. It is worth noting that the pros use a 450 because the rules prohibit
using a larger engine, NOT because the pros don't have a desire for a larger
engine.


A 450cc engine doesn't gain much that matters in an adventure bike compared
to a 650cc engine, and it loses quite a bit because it has less low speed torque
and must be stressed more highly to produce comparable power levels. Ask
yourself this : if Cyril Depres or Marc Coma could ride a 450 or a 690 which bike
would they ride ? You can bet they would ride the bike which had the better
chance of winning, and other things being equal it would most likely be the 660
or 690 or 990 or an 1190, if the rules permitted such machines.


A 450cc adventure bike compared to a 650 adventure bike is an exercise
in pointlessness. An adventure bike is NOT a race bike, and the adventure bike
needs to be able to operate without a crew of mechanics who will rebuild it every night
( unless your name is Ewan and you have a crew following you with every spare you
could possibly need ).

The metal panniers are asking for trouble because the sharp corners on those boxes can exert very high
point loads on the rider's anatomy with painful and expensive results ( think of pins and screws holding
bones together and you will get the idea ).


For me, the question of a light weight adventure bike has already been answered.
A Suzuki DR 650/750/etc. , a Honda XR 650L, or a KTM 640 or 690 all can get the job done very nicely.


Of course there will always be those who prefer to dream rather than ride.

Fabrizio Meoni knew that years ago.



.

[Cruz]

Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike

Agreed !

If you dig down deep enough to find the truth, you will realize that the idea of
a 450 "adventure" bike is an attempt to mimic what the pro riders are using in
the Dakar. It is worth noting that the pros use a 450 because the rules prohibit
using a larger engine, NOT because the pros don't have a desire for a larger
engine.


A 450cc engine doesn't gain much that matters in an adventure bike compared
to a 650cc engine, and it loses quite a bit because it has less low speed torque
and must be stressed more highly to produce comparable power levels. Ask
yourself this : if Cyril Depres or Marc Coma could ride a 450 or a 690 which bike
would they ride ? You can bet they would ride the bike which had the better
chance of winning, and other things being equal it would most likely be the 660
or 690 or 990 or an 1190, if the rules permitted such machines.


A 450cc adventure bike compared to a 650 adventure bike is an exercise
in pointlessness. An adventure bike is NOT a race bike, and the adventure bike
needs to be able to operate without a crew of mechanics who will rebuild it every night
( unless your name is Ewan and you have a crew following you with every spare you
could possibly need ).

The metal panniers are asking for trouble because the sharp corners on those boxes can exert very high
point loads on the rider's anatomy with painful and expensive results ( think of pins and screws holding
bones together and you will get the idea ).


For me, the question of a light weight adventure bike has already been answered.
A Suzuki DR 650/750/etc. , a Honda XR 650L, or a KTM 640 or 690 all can get the job done very nicely.


Of course there will always be those who prefer to dream rather than ride.

Fabrizio Meoni knew that years ago.



.

In your mind this may all be true, to many others probably a load of crap!

What has it got to do with racing, Dakar or even looking like a race bike?

Because it has a front fairing?

Your criticism of the panniers can be said about every other adv bike sold, that also can come with hard or soft panniers. Don't want them, don't buy them.

Only the DR and 690 are still available in Oz from your list?

It is interesting to see how many riders have used the WR250R as their adv mount, most wishing for a 450 or 500 model of the same design. Throw in all the DRZ400 owners who fit big tanks and racks who wish for a wide ratio or 6 speed gearbox and you have a lot of buyers.

As others have said on here and the thread in Thumpers, it may be the perfect bike for many riders, and possibly for more riders around the world than any 600cc or bigger bike.

When you can only afford one bike, this CCM and possibly the new KTM390 may be a better choice to do everything they want with.

[ECKS-Man]

I just love the instant condemnation of this bike by some and instant love from others, based on a couple of photos! Not one of us has thrown a leg over this thing yet, and until we all do (and preferably own/ride the thing for a period of time), none of us know what the hell we are talking about!

Nice photos though!

[hahnelw]

I think I'm with philth here. Looks like its got some great features but a 450 single for most of the adventure riding we do would be hard work and involve too much maintenance. I reckon my ideal at the moment is the Tiger 800XC (which looks like the next purchase) with long legs and good handling in most situations, and manageable in sand and the high country. Obviously a smaller lighter bike in the sandy, tight stuff would be great but the comfort and power of the 800 for the long hauls in the outback and its capability offroad make it compelling until KTM make an 800 v-twin that weighs in under 200kgs.

Cheers WH

Originally Posted by philth

am i missing something?
i cant think of anything worse than a 450 for long haul rides
when you hit those long straight roads its gotta be big bore or multi cylinder

[prestonpaul]

I think a lot of the viability of this bike relies on service intervals, if they can de-tune the engine and/or increase the oil capacity enough to get 10000km service intervals then they will be on to a winner.
Everyone seems to be assuming it will have the same service requirements as a highly strung enduro bike but that may not be the case.
I am reserving judgment until some more info becomes available but good on them for having a crack! Maybe it will be enough to get the bigger manufacturers to take our segment of the market a bit more seriously.

[podge NT]

BMW 450 motor must have had a lot of changes made to it.[/QUOTE]


Why ? I haven,t had any problem with mine 2009 model its done Finke and numerous enduros still going strong. About all it needs is a bigger oil capacity. Not my cup of tea for long distance adv riding though.

[GazzaFish]

I'd be betting my money that the 450cc adventure bike market is just about ready to kick off

[outback jack]

The way i see It's possible to get reasonable life from a current 400/450 power plant without the extra weight of what we hump. If your only carrying rider weight and fuel you might get 20 thou before a rebuild if your nice to it. Load it up and flog it hard and with relentless long hauls it will expire like your highly strung racer. Some may say a 150 hour life span is okay for their needs, this bike will not sell cheaply, i would say around the price of a 690.

[BygDaddee]

Originally Posted by Cruz

In your mind this may all be true, to many others probably a load of crap!

What has it got to do with racing, Dakar or even looking like a race bike?

Because it has a front fairing?

Your criticism of the panniers can be said about every other adv bike sold, that also can come with hard or soft panniers. Don't want them, don't buy them.

Only the DR and 690 are still available in Oz from your list?

It is interesting to see how many riders have used the WR250R as their adv mount, most wishing for a 450 or 500 model of the same design. Throw in all the DRZ400 owners who fit big tanks and racks who wish for a wide ratio or 6 speed gearbox and you have a lot of buyers.

As others have said on here and the thread in Thumpers, it may be the perfect bike for many riders, and possibly for more riders around the world than any 600cc or bigger bike.

When you can only afford one bike, this CCM and possibly the new KTM390 may be a better choice to do everything they want with.

Did you have me in mind here Cruz, cause I would of bought a WR450R if they made them at the drop of a hat when I bought the DRZ. I tried to convince myself to by the WR250R but just needed a bit more CC.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe the DRZ is great value for money, and with a reasonable amount of money is a great middle of the road choice, but a modern mid size dual sport/light adventure bike would be my choice.

[touser]

Hmmm? the weight and price of a 690 without the torque and power. Why bother.