Pucker moment - Page 2

SOLO LOBO · 01-22-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseoffubar

+1

+1 the galfer Green's are my 1st choice as well

GapRunr · 01-22-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLO LOBO

+1 the galfer Green's are my 1st choice as well

Where is everyone finding the Galfer green pads that fit the OP's R75/5? Galfer doesn't list a pad for that bike in any compound.

supershaft · 01-22-2013, 12:09 PM

Just to throw in a different angle: I have never noticed that much difference between sintered and organic pads or pads in general. I use organic pads because they are the easiest on my rotors. I have worn out a lot of rotors. I have literally worn out almost as many rotors as I have pads if you count pulsing rotors as worn out! Sintered pads seem to eat my rotors. If I include all the half worn pads I have replaced after replacing a pulsing rotor I have for sure worn out more rotors than pads!

I do notice a big difference with different rotor alloys. IMO, rotor material is a big part of the equation. Personally, I run stock rotors but I also run Brembo calipers.

Good braking with swinging calipers is an uphill battle. They are a bad design from the get go. An over inch tall pad that swings on a super short radius to meet a flat rotor? Good rotor/pad contact is impossible.

IMO too much lever travel via larger caliper/MC ratio decreases braking control. Not enough 'feedback' IMO. I prefer a firm lever. Not too firm but firm.

Personally, I wouldn't own and ride a bike regularly that has ATE swinging calipers but if I did I would start improving the setup with a handlebar mounted MC and steel braided lines. That stock MC setup is somehow the worst of two worlds combined.

hardwaregrrl · 01-22-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GapRunr

Where is everyone finding the Galfer green pads that fit the OP's R75/5? Galfer doesn't list a pad for that bike in any compound.

OP said he converted to disk...but didn't say what caliper he's using. Assuming its ATE....

supershaft · 01-22-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardwaregrrl

OP said he converted to disk...but didn't say what caliper he's using. Assuming its ATE....

I certainly did!

regomodo · 01-22-2013, 04:03 PM

I too have a stainless disc on my R45 with braided hoses and R65 brembo. It was described as a death trap by the guy who took it to its mot due to the shit brake. I too have nearly shat myself when trying to brake in general. I put EBC gg pads on and made a world of difference and use 2 fingers. I probably will go to hh anyway as they only cost 20 quid.

Tobz · 01-22-2013, 08:11 PM

I'm using the new EBC "V" pads on my /6 and they work quite well. I'm using the stock MC with an SS line. Carefull caliper alighment is also a large factor.

Per EBC:
*Material Code - E391Material Description*Semi Sintered CopperNominal Friction - 0.41****DescriptionE391 is an asbestos free, organic, moulded friction material designed for use in heavy duty and off-highway motorcycle applications. 30% copper by weight added makes this a high copper pad close to sintered durability levels. It has a medium-high coefficient of friction (μ) which retains a highly effective braking performance over a wide range of operating temperatures. This material offers stable braking with minimal pad and rotor wear, and minimal dusting of wheels.*ApplicationHeavy duty long life organic material for heavier touring bikes. Being a semi-sintered pad containing 30% copper by weight, the V-pad combines the benefits of the “feel” of an organic pad plus the low heat generation and rotor galling features that organics have with the lifetime of a sintered pad.Wear Rate/Projected Street Miles - 0.75 grammes eq. to 42,800 milesTÜV German Approved Matl with KBA No. - 60995Design Conditions -Max. continuous temperature 400°C*Max. intermittent temperature 600°CPhysical Properties- Min. assembly shear strength, 400 N/cm2, Density, 2.98 g/cm3

Stan_R80/7 · 01-23-2013, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobz

I'm using the new EBC "V" pads on my /6 and they work quite well. I'm using the stock MC with an SS line. Carefull caliper alighment is also a large factor.

Per EBC:
*Material Code - E391Material Description*Semi Sintered CopperNominal Friction - 0.41****DescriptionE391 is an asbestos free, organic, moulded friction material designed for use in heavy duty and off-highway motorcycle applications. 30% copper by weight added makes this a high copper pad close to sintered durability levels. It has a medium-high coefficient of friction (μ) which retains a highly effective braking performance over a wide range of operating temperatures. This material offers stable braking with minimal pad and rotor wear, and minimal dusting of wheels.*ApplicationHeavy duty long life organic material for heavier touring bikes. Being a semi-sintered pad containing 30% copper by weight, the V-pad combines the benefits of the “feel” of an organic pad plus the low heat generation and rotor galling features that organics have with the lifetime of a sintered pad.Wear Rate/Projected Street Miles - 0.75 grammes eq. to 42,800 milesTÜV German Approved Matl with KBA No. - 60995Design Conditions -Max. continuous temperature 400°C*Max. intermittent temperature 600°CPhysical Properties- Min. assembly shear strength, 400 N/cm2, Density, 2.98 g/cm3

Comparing the EBC 'V' pads to their organic kevlar pads, it seems the kevlar have the same or a slightly higher coefficient of friction: http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_...ds/index.shtml

The HH pads have significantly higher friction, but doubt my airhead will ever see them: http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_...double-h.shtml

As part of my quest, the EBC 'V' pad were ordered. However, much like battling windmills, I somewhat doubt they will provide satisfaction. Spending more time tinkering with the ATE pivot is still an option. However, I found that the pivot does not lock, so any 'fine tuning' adjustments will change as the pivot rotates slightly when the brake is applied hard. All things considered, the brakes do work with three fingered braking.

Tobz · 01-23-2013, 11:57 AM

In my experence, I like the "V" due to the combined attributes of feedback, grip, and potential rotor life. (Rotor life yet to be determined but should be better than full sintered) This opinion is based on direct compairion to EBC kevlar organic pads, and even new OEM BMW pads on the same bike. In my opinion, with ATE brakes proper caliper angle set up and pad break-in (I always use a rotor hone) are more important factors in acheiving stopping power than pad compound selection. The pattern of the rotor hone and lack of glaze really helps new pads bed in. I then make numerors lines on the rotor with a marker and make small angle adjustments untill the pad wipes off the line evenly across the entire rotor with light lever pressure. A small turn can make a big differnce and a pad that isn't hitting the rotor square just isn't going to grip very well. If you find your setting not staying set, a new caliper adjuster tension spring is less than $5, and maybe replace the o-ring while you're at it. They will never be a monobloc Brembo, but mine now works pretty well for a 76 that still has the MC under the tank.

I use HH pads on my oilhead GSA but wouldn't consider them on an airhead with OEM ATE brakes as they would have a voracious appitite for old school rotors. I don't beleve EBC even makes the FA22 in an HH.

01-22-2013, 12:09 PM	#18
supershaft because I can Joined: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco Bay area Oddometer: 6,066	Just to throw in a different angle: I have never noticed that much difference between sintered and organic pads or pads in general. I use organic pads because they are the easiest on my rotors. I have worn out a lot of rotors. I have literally worn out almost as many rotors as I have pads if you count pulsing rotors as worn out! Sintered pads seem to eat my rotors. If I include all the half worn pads I have replaced after replacing a pulsing rotor I have for sure worn out more rotors than pads! I do notice a big difference with different rotor alloys. IMO, rotor material is a big part of the equation. Personally, I run stock rotors but I also run Brembo calipers. Good braking with swinging calipers is an uphill battle. They are a bad design from the get go. An over inch tall pad that swings on a super short radius to meet a flat rotor? Good rotor/pad contact is impossible. IMO too much lever travel via larger caliper/MC ratio decreases braking control. Not enough 'feedback' IMO. I prefer a firm lever. Not too firm but firm. Personally, I wouldn't own and ride a bike regularly that has ATE swinging calipers but if I did I would start improving the setup with a handlebar mounted MC and steel braided lines. That stock MC setup is somehow the worst of two worlds combined. supershaft screwed with this post 01-22-2013 at 03:57 PM

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01-22-2013, 04:03 PM	#21
regomodo Adventurer Joined: Jul 2012 Location: Bristol, UK Oddometer: 64	I too have a stainless disc on my R45 with braided hoses and R65 brembo. It was described as a death trap by the guy who took it to its mot due to the shit brake. I too have nearly shat myself when trying to brake in general. I put EBC gg pads on and made a world of difference and use 2 fingers. I probably will go to hh anyway as they only cost 20 quid.

01-22-2013, 08:11 PM	#22
Tobz Gnarly Adventurer Joined: May 2009 Location: WI Oddometer: 178	I'm using the new EBC "V" pads on my /6 and they work quite well. I'm using the stock MC with an SS line. Carefull caliper alighment is also a large factor. Per EBC: Material Code - E391Material DescriptionSemi Sintered CopperNominal Friction - 0.41***DescriptionE391 is an asbestos free, organic, moulded friction material designed for use in heavy duty and off-highway motorcycle applications. 30% copper by weight added makes this a high copper pad close to sintered durability levels. It has a medium-high coefficient of friction (μ) which retains a highly effective braking performance over a wide range of operating temperatures. This material offers stable braking with minimal pad and rotor wear, and minimal dusting of wheels.ApplicationHeavy duty long life organic material for heavier touring bikes. Being a semi-sintered pad containing 30% copper by weight, the V-pad combines the benefits of the “feel” of an organic pad plus the low heat generation and rotor galling features that organics have with the lifetime of a sintered pad.Wear Rate/Projected Street Miles - 0.75 grammes eq. to 42,800 milesTÜV German Approved Matl with KBA No. - 60995Design Conditions -Max. continuous temperature 400°C*Max. intermittent temperature 600°CPhysical Properties- Min. assembly shear strength, 400 N/cm2, Density, 2.98 g/cm3

01-23-2013, 11:57 AM	#24
Tobz Gnarly Adventurer Joined: May 2009 Location: WI Oddometer: 178	In my experence, I like the "V" due to the combined attributes of feedback, grip, and potential rotor life. (Rotor life yet to be determined but should be better than full sintered) This opinion is based on direct compairion to EBC kevlar organic pads, and even new OEM BMW pads on the same bike. In my opinion, with ATE brakes proper caliper angle set up and pad break-in (I always use a rotor hone) are more important factors in acheiving stopping power than pad compound selection. The pattern of the rotor hone and lack of glaze really helps new pads bed in. I then make numerors lines on the rotor with a marker and make small angle adjustments untill the pad wipes off the line evenly across the entire rotor with light lever pressure. A small turn can make a big differnce and a pad that isn't hitting the rotor square just isn't going to grip very well. If you find your setting not staying set, a new caliper adjuster tension spring is less than $5, and maybe replace the o-ring while you're at it. They will never be a monobloc Brembo, but mine now works pretty well for a 76 that still has the MC under the tank. I use HH pads on my oilhead GSA but wouldn't consider them on an airhead with OEM ATE brakes as they would have a voracious appitite for old school rotors. I don't beleve EBC even makes the FA22 in an HH.