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Old 01-23-2013, 06:45 AM   #26911
Gummee!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisenhallw View Post


Let it go, Gummee.
I'm not referring to anything Strava. After many years of riding, I can categorically state 'it isn't the bike, its the engine.' Upgrading parts before they're worn out or broken is a waste of $ IMO.

YMMV


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HEY AKDUC!



I wonder if you might detail your winter layering scheme, please?
If last nite is any indication, you don't need to wear as much as you think. When I got in the car thermometer said 19deg. ...and I was hot!

M
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:51 AM   #26912
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
I'm not referring to anything Strava. After many years of riding, I can categorically state 'it isn't the bike, its the engine.' Upgrading parts before they're worn out or broken is a waste of $ IMO.
That's nonsense, and you know it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:54 AM   #26913
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
That's nonsense, and you know it.
Is that why I'm still riding mostly 8sp XTR? Rival?



They ain't broke. They're not getting upgraded.

But its your $ do whatcha want.

M
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:39 AM   #26914
Aurelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Is that why I'm still riding mostly 8sp XTR? Rival?



They ain't broke. They're not getting upgraded.

But its your $ do whatcha want.

M
Your personal reasons for not wanting to spend money on equipment upgrades are not at issue, but pronouncements like, "it isn't the bike, its the engine," are patently absurd. No one actually believes that, not even you.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:45 AM   #26915
Gummee!
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
Your personal reasons for not wanting to spend money on equipment upgrades are not at issue, but pronouncements like, "it isn't the bike, its the engine," are patently absurd. No one actually believes that, not even you.
Not true.

Try racing track.

Its the engine, not the bike. 100% of the time.

Talent, drive, desire, fitness, etc ALL play a MUCH bigger part than the bike does.

M
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:53 AM   #26916
Tallbastid
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I'm with Gummee on this one. It's like any other sport; Bubba could ride an XR200 and whip you or me aboard a '13 CRF450 any day.

Throwing money at an already expensive ride just seems silly. But that's me, and I'm guessing I make much less than you do.

Tallbastid screwed with this post 01-23-2013 at 08:04 AM
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:02 AM   #26917
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
Not true.

Try racing track.

Its the engine, not the bike. 100% of the time.
Right. That must be the reason all the top racers are out there on $200 Walmart specials, rather than using the best equipment money can buy. Because race results depend solely on the rider, 100% of the time.

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Talent, drive, desire, fitness, etc ALL play a MUCH bigger part than the bike does.

M
A bigger part than the bike does? So you admit that the bike does play a part, and that your earlier claim was %100 wrong, %100 of the time.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:16 AM   #26918
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Originally Posted by moodfart View Post
I'm with Gummee on this one. It's like any other sport; Bubba could ride an XR200 and whip you or I aboard a '13 CRF450 any day.
That is an irrelevant comparison. No one has argued that a much better rider with grade C equipment can't possibly beat lesser riders with grade A equipment. The question is whether top shelf equipment confers a performance benefit, irrespective of the rider. Pretty obviously the answer is yes, else no one would be using it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:17 AM   #26919
Wadester
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Just a thought - I've always wanted to make sure my equipment was better than my skills. Don't want the machine to be holding me back, you know!

If buying a new component will make you happy, by all means go for it. But Gummee has a point: if a component is not broken, there is no need to replace it. I haven't noticed anyone going faster with more gears or a different style of shifter or crank. Once you reach a certain level of quality (well above wally-grade) you're as good as gear can make you.

The racer boyos have the bleeding edge because they are paid to. If a few grams will make you faster, just make sure to take a good dump before your ride. And go ride your bike.
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This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic. (Originally Posted by Human Ills, 7/1/14)
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:41 AM   #26920
Tallbastid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
That is an irrelevant comparison. No one has argued that a much better rider with grade C equipment can't possibly beat lesser riders with grade A equipment. The question is whether top shelf equipment confers a performance benefit, irrespective of the rider. Pretty obviously the answer is yes, else no one would be using it.

Irrelevant? It's the rider, not the equipment. I maintain that unless you're outriding your superfly in those extreme trails of yours, a $1,000 upgrade to your working drivetrain is a waste of money... going from grade A to grade A.

But, as Gummee stated, it's your money.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:45 AM   #26921
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by Wadester View Post
Just a thought - I've always wanted to make sure my equipment was better than my skills. Don't want the machine to be holding me back, you know!

If buying a new component will make you happy, by all means go for it. But Gummee has a point: if a component is not broken, there is no need to replace it.
But you're asking the wrong question. Strictly put, I don't 'need' top shelf brakes, suspension components, lighter wheels, etc., to simply ride a bicycle. But having those components will augment whatever skills a rider has and improve the bike's performance. How can anyone seriously argue otherwise?

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I haven't noticed anyone going faster with more gears or a different style of shifter or crank. Once you reach a certain level of quality (well above wally-grade) you're as good as gear can make you.
To say, 'once you reach a certain level of quality,' already concedes the point I've made: better equipment does matter. Your subjective judgment may be that it doesn't matter all that much, but that's a far cry from the thoughtless claim that the only determinant of performance is the rider. If someone were to make a similar claim that how well a car performs is solely determined by its engine, I doubt anyone here would have trouble seeing the absurdity in it. At least I hope not.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:05 AM   #26922
YakSpout
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Anyone who's been riding for a decade or two is usually way past spending serious coin to replace a working part because they want something shiny and new, whether the benefit is perceived or concrete. That behavior screams normally screams Fred.

OTOH, if you have the funds and want to buy the latest and greatest, go for it. Be sure to post your KOMs...
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:09 AM   #26923
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by moodfart View Post
I maintain that unless you're outriding your superfly in those extreme trails of yours, a $1,000 upgrade to your working drivetrain is a waste of money... going from grade A to grade A.
"Waste of money" is a subjective judgment, as I'm sure you know. Some people would say the same of trading my perfectly serviceable HT for a high priced FS, but I'm awfully glad I did.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:13 AM   #26924
k7
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I'm in the middle of this argument but I can easily see both sides.

When I went from my aluminum recumbent to a carbon one, I picked up 2 mph average speed. Before, I struggled to maintain 18 mph on average and with the new one, 20 or better is usually within my grasp. That's huge.

However, I've not spent a dime on the bike components with the exception of a powertap set of wheels. I don't consider that an upgrade since I already have a set of Velocity A23 rims that match the powertap wheels' rims. In fact, if anything, it added a little bit of weight to what I was already using.

At the end of the day however, there's always another rider out there, perhaps on sub-superior equipment who can kick my ass. He wants it more - works harder at it - lives, eats and drinks it.

Me? I just want to ride and achieve my personal goals. I'll talk about my goals a lot here - it keeps me motivated and fearful of being laughed at if I don't at least achieve some of them.

I see this on other sites - guys that are always asking about brand A brakes versus brand B brakes or one chain versus another chain or this tire versus that tire. Fuck that - if these guys spent half the time riding instead of shopping, they'd already be faster. Hell, I have a hard enough time justifying the purchase of my last bike to myself even though I had a pretty good 2012.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #26925
Aurelius
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Originally Posted by YakSpout View Post
Anyone who's been riding for a decade or two is usually way past spending serious coin to replace a working part because they want something shiny and new, whether the benefit is perceived or concrete. That behavior screams normally screams Fred.
Odd that you should say that. The racers I'm acquainted with seem to upgrade components on a monthly basis, sometimes buying a whole new bike at the start of each racing season.
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