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Old 01-24-2013, 05:07 AM   #15826
stinkfinger
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Joined: Aug 2006
Location: North Mississippi
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I use this, its not perfect but works.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...uestid=3802195

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Old 01-25-2013, 02:28 PM   #15827
lstzephyr
Solo con rambo
 
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Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Huntsville, Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright gents I need a couple extra opinions on my current situation. I can't get my bike to start again after it died the other day. It was running fine on a new engine rebuild until I turned into the bar and it sputtered and died. I figured it was low on fuel and didn't bother with it. When I went to leave I couldn't get it to start. It hasn't started since.

I have:
  1. New fuel
  2. new petcock
  3. new fuel line
  4. new spark plug
  5. Checked for spark(has spark on spark tester and when holding plug to head)
  6. Top end is fresh(new piston/rings/valves/seals/tensioner/cam chain etc less than 8 engine hours ago)
  7. Checked cam chain, cam timing, valve clearance(all in spec)
  8. Checked wiring
  9. Cleaned the carb thoroughly ( tore it down completely and had it dunked over the weekend by the local machine shop)
  10. Attempted bump starting (the bike only locks the back tire, I need a bigger hill)
  11. pulled cylinder off and checked valves/piston. Everything looks fine.
  12. New coil
  13. Swapped cdi with ebay xr400 cdi that was stated as pulled from running bike
  14. I'm working in a 70 degree shop so temp is not an issue.

After the carb cleaning it would periodically fire 3-4 revolutions then die. Barely more than the spin of the kick. Starting fluid has no effect other than raising the amount of backfires.

I swapped on my recently rebuilt HS40 Carb (mikuni tm40) to see if it was still a plugged pilot circuit. No change except it will fire 3-4 revolutions every other kick now. I think that is because the accelerator pump allows me to toss fuel in. I didn't want to add another variable(new carb) but I wanted to rule out the stock carb as the issue.

So my thinking is that it could be one of a few things:

Unlikely:
  1. Loss of compression(it is still more difficult to kick than before rebuilt so it appears to have compression)
  2. CDI(only failure symptoms I can find say that there is no spark with a dead cdi, I have spark so probably not cdi)
  3. Stator(the wires to the stator appear fine and I could not find any cuts or abrasions)
  4. Plugged pilot circuit in both carbs (I checked both thoroughly, especially the hs40)
  5. coil(new coil)

Probable:

  1. Misadjusted idle in both carbs (I have moved the idle screws around while trying to start it)
  2. automatic decompressor
  3. coil pickup

My current thinking is that I have spark but the bike won't fire more than 3-4 revolutions so the spark may be weak or out of time.

Can the coil pickup or stator be tested? How?

Any other ideas?
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. There was another guy a while back that asked us to check some cdi's for him. Does anyone know if he got it fixed and what was wrong? I'm running low on ideas.

Edit: I started a thread to try to get more opinions so feel free to answer either there or here. Both posts are identical. http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...2#post20574772

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

lstzephyr screwed with this post 01-25-2013 at 02:35 PM
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:54 PM   #15828
nick5446
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Location: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. There was another guy a while back that asked us to check some cdi's for him. Does anyone know if he got it fixed and what was wrong? I'm running low on ideas.

Edit: I started a thread to try to get more opinions so feel free to answer either there or here. Both posts are identical. http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...2#post20574772

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
No an expert, but all an ICE needs to run is fuel, air and spark. If you've got spark, shoot some starting fluid in there and it should fire. If it starts and then dies then you've got a fuel delivery issue. If it doesn't do anything, then you don't have good or consistent spark.

Also, if you installed an auto-decompressor (sounds like you did), it should be working fine if it's hard to turn over like you say it is.

CDI sounds suspect to me if you put a used eBay one on. They're prone to failure anyway and you've got one that (in my mind) is suspect anyway. Their failure can be intermittent.

Take a video of you trying to start it. "No start" symptoms can vary greatly and mean a lot of different things.

Is the gas on??
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:26 PM   #15829
RideFreak
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: County Lockup, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. There was another guy a while back that asked us to check some cdi's for him. Does anyone know if he got it fixed and what was wrong? I'm running low on ideas.

Edit: I started a thread to try to get more opinions so feel free to answer either there or here. Both posts are identical. http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...2#post20574772

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Alan, the XR400 CDIs are pretty reliable, like the 650R OE unit they are made with honda's typical quality, yes it could be that but symptoms sound the same with both. Stick the 650R cdi on, (they start a little easier without the extra advance). Carb symptoms sound similar across both carbs so I'm thinking it's not that. Aside from a clogged jet, they don't just quit.

Have you gone back into the topend and seen if there is a tight valve, that will make them a bitch to start and with recent topend work, the valves will typically tighten up to some extent as they seat into the head after a rebuild. Tight valve can cause firing back through the carb too. Since it ran ok initially, assembly was probably ok. Personally I'd avoid starting fluid, it can cause as many problem as it solves and doesn't seem to be helping anyway.

I'm not against a good pull start though, tie the rope to the pull vehicle and wrap it around the rh footpeg once with the end coming up to your hand on the bars (with enough slack to allow for turning the bars and using the throttle). Use pressure with your rh foot to keep it secured to the "pulled" bike, if anything goes wrong release the end in your hand and lift your foot, it will come right off. Use 3rd or 4th and let the clutch out easy at about 20mph.

Pickup can be tested with an OHM meter, specs are in the service manual. Also purchasing a part from e-bay has no bearing on it's reliability, I've bought and sold many items on E-bay, have yet to get a bad MC componet. Chineese electronics, yes but not MC parts, yes it could be bad but you can buy bad parts anywhere, E-bay has nothing to do with it.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #15830
lstzephyr
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Location: Huntsville, Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
Alan, the XR400 CDIs are pretty reliable, like the 650R OE unit they are made with honda's typical quality, yes it could be that but symptoms sound the same with both. Stick the 650R cdi on, (they start a little easier without the extra advance). Carb symptoms sound similar across both carbs so I'm thinking it's not that. Aside from a clogged jet, they don't just quit.

So far both cdis and both carbs have similar symptoms and no effect on starting. I agree with you that it is probably not cdi or carb related.

Have you gone back into the topend and seen if there is a tight valve, that will make them a bitch to start and with recent topend work, the valves will typically tighten up to some extent as they seat into the head after a rebuild. Tight valve can cause firing back through the carb too. Since it ran ok initially, assembly was probably ok. Personally I'd avoid starting fluid, it can cause as many problem as it solves and doesn't seem to be helping anyway.

I pulled the topend and checked everything a second time last week. I tore it down to the piston. Valves have been checked 4-5 times and they moved the first time. No change in valve spec since and no apparent effect on starting.

I'm not against a good pull start though, tie the rope to the pull vehicle and wrap it around the rh footpeg once with the end coming up to your hand on the bars (with enough slack to allow for turning the bars and using the throttle). Use pressure with your rh foot to keep it secured to the "pulled" bike, if anything goes wrong release the end in your hand and lift your foot, it will come right off. Use 3rd or 4th and let the clutch out easy at about 20mph.

Pickup can be tested with an OHM meter, specs are in the service manual. Also purchasing a part from e-bay has no bearing on it's reliability, I've bought and sold many items on E-bay, have yet to get a bad MC componet. Chineese electronics, yes but not MC parts, yes it could be bad but you can buy bad parts anywhere, E-bay has nothing to do with it.
Responses in red. I guess checking the coil pickup is my next step.

I'll try a pull start when it warms up outside.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick5446 View Post
No an expert, but all an ICE needs to run is fuel, air and spark. If you've got spark, shoot some starting fluid in there and it should fire. If it starts and then dies then you've got a fuel delivery issue. If it doesn't do anything, then you don't have good or consistent spark.

There is no change with starting fluid except for increased backfires. I agree that it is probably ignition quality or ignition timing related.

Also, if you installed an auto-decompressor (sounds like you did), it should be working fine if it's hard to turn over like you say it is.

Auto-decompressor is stock. I have found a couple instances of it failing and bleeding compression on thumpertalk but the signs and symptoms are not clear.

CDI sounds suspect to me if you put a used eBay one on. They're prone to failure anyway and you've got one that (in my mind) is suspect anyway. Their failure can be intermittent.

Ebay cdi is something I just swapped today. I have been trying to get it running with the stock cdi that has been on the bike the last 4-5 years I have owned it without any issue. I wanted to see if it caused a change.

Take a video of you trying to start it. "No start" symptoms can vary greatly and mean a lot of different things.

Is the gas on??
Yep the gas is on. I did that once with my xr600r I owned before this bike. I rode this bike daily for a year or two and never had an issue starting it. I'm assuming my kicking technique and general pre-start voodoo dance is correct.

Thanks for the ideas!

lstzephyr screwed with this post 01-25-2013 at 03:54 PM
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #15831
ZXRaziel
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Location: Grey skyes and rain of Good old England ( NEast)
Oddometer: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirCommando View Post
Can anybody recommend some good brake pads for my BRP?

Thank you


I use the genuine pads for the front and
Goldfren S3 Ceramic Carbon

for the rear end , i like to have more agressive bite for the rear brake , but that is just personal preference .
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:13 PM   #15832
ZXRaziel
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Location: Grey skyes and rain of Good old England ( NEast)
Oddometer: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by achile View Post
The two pins are worn and the holes are oval. The bolts from a 520 master link are the perfect size. I sent them to a machine shop. They called me today to inform me that the link is ready for pick-up. 10 $


SO....for all you piggy owners with crazy idles, check the linkage. The cheap way to fix them is replacing the pins and boring bigger holes.

Going to check it out .
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:47 PM   #15833
Kiko
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Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Jalisco, Mexico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I'm not against a good pull start though, tie the rope to the pull vehicle and wrap it around the rh footpeg once with the end coming up to your hand on the bars (with enough slack to allow for turning the bars and using the throttle). Use pressure with your rh foot to keep it secured to the "pulled" bike, if anything goes wrong release the end in your hand and lift your foot, it will come right off. Use 3rd or 4th and let the clutch out easy at about 20mph.
Great tip. Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:01 PM   #15834
walkergreenlabel
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Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Oakville, ON
Oddometer: 182
suspension work costs??

I have been reading all of this thread. I'm up to page 527 and have learned a lot so thanks to all. one thing i am going to do is suspension work. I don't know yet how extensive its going to get. I think the bike is a little under sprung for me at 215 lbs plus riding gear tools etc. it will depend on costs so if you have an idea (ballpark) of some of the costs let me know:

do the work myself
new springs front and rear
new valves for forks

take everything in to reputable shop and have them do the work.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:14 PM   #15835
oldxr
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Location: central komifornia
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Walker-find the old Borynack files on xrr suspension.There is 1 file for the front and 1 for the back shock.Rumor has it that the shim stacks were copied from a suspension prepped by precision concepts baja racer.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:31 PM   #15836
pwrtrippin
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Woodland Park,CO
Oddometer: 397
Its possible to shear the woodruff key and throw the timing way off. Bought a bike with this problem.

For some reason to me it sounds like the ignition timing is off since it is back firing. I'm not sure but I think the piggy is a lost spark system ( fires every revolution) so i don't think it is possible to time the engine 360degrees off.

Have you pulled the stator cover off? To check the stator, I would check for continuity between the stator windings, disconnect all the wires. Green and White/yellow stripe, then check the same wires to a frame ground. These are your power leads for headlight tail light. Next do the same thing with the Brown and Black/red stripe. These are your power for the CDI and coil. There should be continuity between the wires but not to ground. Do the same with Blue/ yellow strip and the Green/ white stripe. These are your pickup, once again you should have continuity between the wires but not to ground.

I think form the sounds of it the stator is good though. I would definately look more into ignition timing issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Responses in red. I guess checking the coil pickup is my next step.

I'll try a pull start when it warms up outside.

Thanks!



Yep the gas is on. I did that once with my xr600r I owned before this bike. I rode this bike daily for a year or two and never had an issue starting it. I'm assuming my kicking technique and general pre-start voodoo dance is correct.

Thanks for the ideas!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:12 PM   #15837
Adamco2
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Location: Santa Cruz
Oddometer: 127
"new" XRR

Picked up my first XRR a couple of weeks ago and am in the process of cleaning it up and fixing anything I find that needs attention. I took it out to my local OHV park and spent the day getting used to it and figuring out what needed to be done right away. The thing fired right up and ran straight and strong. I was very impressed with the power and stability.
I am going to start from the front and work my way back. I have pulled the front end apart and plan to:
1. Change the fork oil
2. Grease the steering head bearings
3. Cleaning up the seals and bearings on the front wheel.
4. New throttle cables are on order from Motion Pro and I will probably order brake and clutch/decomp cables as well.
5. New gaskets and hoses for the carb (it is leaking a little.)
6. Upgrade the seat.
7. Pull the rear shock and swing arm for cleaning and grease.
8. Clean the rear wheel seals and bearings.

I am in the early stages of planning a trip to Northern Nevada this spring and would like to make the most reliable bike I can for the trip. Any other suggestions or comments would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:41 PM   #15838
Beserker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrtrippin View Post
I'm not sure but I think the piggy is a lost spark system ( fires every revolution) so i don't think it is possible to time the engine 360degrees off.
Quick to check though, and worthwile if you got the bike from somebody that is not an experianced mech
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #15839
Kiko
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Picked up my first XRR a couple of weeks ago and am in the process of cleaning it up and fixing anything I find that needs attention. Any other suggestions or comments would be much appreciated.

Fix the right foot peg. If you ride at night, dump the stock light and go HID.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:24 AM   #15840
BuRPsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Any other ideas?
Just a hunch Allan, 'false air' - go check the head2manifold & manifold2carb connections, plus that one screw/bolt on top of the head? If it leaks air somewhere here then you know it'll be a bastid to start, and won't like to idle then too. I'd check this before you dig in deep again, causes often are simple things.
Goodluck!


Edit: also, if std carb then plug (with a tiny drop of epoxy or silicone) the small hole in the carb's small lhs-cover under which a membrane sits. You need to do this anyway to stop leaning-off on overrun, but this 'fix' also gives you peave of mind if ever that membrane tears.

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