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Old 01-27-2013, 06:25 PM   #2656
'Flagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
80 dB, had no idea, seems pretty quiet, even by comparing to bikes I've had recently. I think some have said that this computer controlled system is way more sophisticated than ones in the past, mostly to keep the "backyard mechanic", out of the loop. Haven't heard from Ramz lately, I think he stated something like, you won't believe what information we can get out of this. Not quoting, but here on this thread, quite early on, he stated something similar. Others have noted that changing anything is a no no on current laws, nobody getting hung around here just lately, though, the pirates are taking mufflers off for the first mod. Oh crap, pirates, and KTM bashing, I though this was a CRF forum
Ramz appears to have abandoned us .... hasn't posted in this thread since mid-December. That's a shame ... all input is welcome.
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'Flagger screwed with this post 01-27-2013 at 06:42 PM
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:50 PM   #2657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bake View Post
The Bill Blue 280 big bore engine was up and running today. He said he completed the design for the second size engine. Bill's contacts in the business go pretty deep, if he pulls the trigger on these 2 big bore kits, it will happen relatively quickly. It's still his secret what size the bigger engine is, but I think it's about 320cc.
I got my Dobeck fuel controller today and will install it on my bike this weekend. Bill should have the new exhaust tips done soon. I will be testing one of those while he breaks in the 280. He says the cooling capacity can handle a 350, but there just isn't room to go that big.
It's been a while since we heard anything about this ... unless I missed it?

Looks like our missing owner has ordered and received the smaller of the two kits mentioned above. Maybe we can convince him to come back and provide some insight.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:56 PM   #2658
Ed@Ford
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There was some previous discussion on it being a no-no to adjust the "sealed" throttle stop on the throttle body. I asked the stupid question of whether there is an adjuster on the throttle cable by the RH grip. Well, I looked at the bike show yes...there is one on the CRF. Here's an experiment for someone who has a CRF in a warm area that likes to stall when the throttle is allowed to slam shut and the bike rolls to a stop. Fiddle with the adjuster on the cable to the point where the idle is slightly elevated....go out and see if the bike still stalls. If it no longer stalls, then "idle speed setting" via the throttle stop is a fix of sorts. But I think thoroughly studying the service manual is essential. Mine's on order...when it arrives? Who knows!
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #2659
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Having had quads and dirtbikes all my life I've always joined the main forums for whatever particular vehicle I own. Is it weird to anyone that this thread is really the only place on the web(in English) that has good info and user input on the 250L?
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:15 PM   #2660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
There was some previous discussion on it being a no-no to adjust the "sealed" throttle stop on the throttle body. I asked the stupid question of whether there is an adjuster on the throttle cable by the RH grip. Well, I looked at the bike show yes...there is one on the CRF. Here's an experiment for someone who has a CRF in a warm area that likes to stall when the throttle is allowed to slam shut and the bike rolls to a stop. Fiddle with the adjuster on the cable to the point where the idle is slightly elevated....go out and see if the bike still stalls. If it no longer stalls, then "idle speed setting" via the throttle stop is a fix of sorts. But I think thoroughly studying the service manual is essential. Mine's on order...when it arrives? Who knows!
just looked in the throttle operation section..to sum it up breifly..the adjustments at the bars are the minor adjustments and the adjustments down below are the major adjustments on the throttle cable.....something to consider and try, but just to cold for me right now...Thanks Ed
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #2661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CR250R View Post
Having had quads and dirtbikes all my life I've always joined the main forums for whatever particular vehicle I own. Is it weird to anyone that this thread is really the only place on the web(in English) that has good info and user input on the 250L?
There's a dedicated forum for the CRF250L over at Thumpertalk.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/351-crf250l/

I like the running commentary and social intercourse of a "global village" thread such as this one. However, it's easier to find information on specific topics when individual threads are created, and contained in one, convenient forum, such as the CRF250L Forum at Thumpertalk.

Spud
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:55 PM   #2662
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Talking Please Read Me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
80 dB, had no idea, seems pretty quiet, even by comparing to bikes I've had recently. I think some have said that this computer controlled system is way more sophisticated than ones in the past, mostly to keep the "backyard mechanic", out of the loop. Haven't heard from Ramz lately, I think he stated something like, you won't believe what information we can get out of this. Not quoting, but here on this thread, quite early on, he stated something similar. Others have noted that changing anything is a no no on current laws, nobody getting hung around here just lately, though, the pirates are taking mufflers off for the first mod. Oh crap, pirates, and KTM bashing, I though this was a CRF forum

I'm not a back yard mechanic. I have 20 years of experence with this type of fuel injection and engine controller diagnosis, programing and custom tuning. I'm not bragging just informing you.

The injection system on the CRFL is designed using automotive technology. It is a closed loop speed density system.

I'm very experenced with this style system. I could put a turbo on it and dial it in correctly if there was room. I can basicly give you more info the a Honda tech can.

I'm willing to help as needed and answer any questions. You just have to put up with me. I can get kinda out there at times, just nicely point it out so I don't go on a rant. I've been hit in the head a few too many times and would like to get the knowledge/info out well I still can. I also have a brain tumor and other heath issues so please keep this in mind.

I haven't studied the system in detail yet since I don't own one... I plan on checking into it so I know what sensors it uses. Then I can explain how the system operates so everyone can understand.

I could use some help gathering pictures and verifying some sensor information so I can provide accurate information.

A chance to study the service manual(or get one) would be great. Then I could give step by step help and instructions as needed.

I believe it has the following sensors. If someone could double check the list and add the other possilble ones that would be great.


BMAP = Barometric/Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor or a sensor for each.
TPS = throttle position sensor
CTS = Coolant Temperature Sensor
OS or O2 = Oxygen Sensor
IAC = Idle Air Control valve/stepper motor
CKP = Crankshaft Position Sensor
IAT sensor = Intake Air Temperature sensor

Some good detailed pictures would be great if someone could help me out. Lost has a good one and I plan on searching for more, I will give credit for each picture I can ID unless I can't find it or you don't want we to.

I think I want to start a new post like "CRF250L engine control details and tech"

If that sounds good to the CRF250L owner and followers out there let me know???

If you could PM me pictures, info or questions feel free. This way it won't clog up this thread and be great source of info that can be located easy.

Over and out...





MentalGuru screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 07:39 AM Reason: Update list
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:59 PM   #2663
MentalGuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
There was some previous discussion on it being a no-no to adjust the "sealed" throttle stop on the throttle body. I asked the stupid question of whether there is an adjuster on the throttle cable by the RH grip. Well, I looked at the bike show yes...there is one on the CRF. Here's an experiment for someone who has a CRF in a warm area that likes to stall when the throttle is allowed to slam shut and the bike rolls to a stop. Fiddle with the adjuster on the cable to the point where the idle is slightly elevated....go out and see if the bike still stalls. If it no longer stalls, then "idle speed setting" via the throttle stop is a fix of sorts. But I think thoroughly studying the service manual is essential. Mine's on order...when it arrives? Who knows!

Be careful when you do this because dirt could cause the throttle to stick further open since it won't have any slack.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:02 PM   #2664
NJ-Brett
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I think a camshaft position sensor would be a first on a bike, A Japanese bike anyway...
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:09 PM   #2665
Spud Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post
I'm not a back yard mechanic. I have 20 years of experence with this type of fuel injection and engine controller diagnosis, programing and custom tuning. I'm not bragging just informing you.

The injection system on the CRFL is designed using automotive technology. It is a closed loop speed density system.

I'm very experenced with this style system. I could put a turbo on it and dial it in correctly if there was room. I can basicly give you more info the a Honda tech can.

I'm willing to help as needed and answer any questions. You just have to put up with me. I can get kinda out there at times, just nicely point it out so I don't go on a rant. I've been hit in the head a few too many times and would like to get the knowledge/info out well I still can. I also have a brain tumor and other heath issues so please keep this in mind.

I haven't studied the system in detail yet since I don't own one... I plan on checking into it so I know what sensors it uses. Then I can explain how the system operates so everyone can understand.

I could use some help gathering pictures and verifying some sensor information so I can provide accurate information.

A chance to study the service manual(or get one) would be great. Then I could give step by step help and instructions as needed.

I believe it has the following sensors. If someone could double check the list and add the other possilble ones that would be great.


BMAP = Barometric/Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor or a sensor for each.
TPS = throttle position sensor
CTS = Coolant Temperature Sensor
OS or O2S = Oxygen Sensor
IAC = Idle Air Control valve/stepper motor
CKP = Crankshaft Position Sensor
CMP = Camshaft Position Sensor

Some good detailed pictures would be great if someone could help me out. Lost has a good one and I plan on searching for more, I will give credit for each picture I can ID unless I can't find it or you don't want we to.

I think I want to start a new post like "CRF250L engine control details and tech"

If that sounds good to the CRF250L owner and followers out there let me know???

If you could PM me pictures, info or questions feel free. This way it won't clog up this thread and be great source of info that can be located easy.

Over and out...




That's great, Guru! Please do start a new thread, either here, or at Thumpertalk!

I believe the ECU is part #16 in the following diagram.



This unit only costs $73. Would it help your diagnosis if we chipped in and bought you an ECU?

Spud
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:21 PM   #2666
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post
Be careful when you do this because dirt could cause the throttle to stick further open since it won't have any slack.

Yes, you are exactly correct...this experiment is simply an experiment to see if the engine is going lean, or low on air & fuel and is momentarily "strangled" due to that lack of air. With your background...which probably included the trials and tribulations of emissionizing automotive carburetors, you are probably well aware of why they all had "dashpots" to allow the throttle to close the last little bit slowly and uniformly. The experiment will give us a clue of a cause for the stalls....but more than likely, this would not be the "proper" fix.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:24 PM   #2667
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
That's great, Guru! Please do start a new thread, either here, or at Thumpertalk!

I believe the ECU is part #16 in the following diagram.



This unit only costs $73. Would it help your diagnosis if we chipped in and bought you an ECU?

Spud
SPUD: You bring up another issue pointing out that the engine computer is only $73. I seem to recall reading a rumor that there were "race" versions of the computer that could be used on the CBR250R "street bike" that made much more than the 25 horse the CBR was rated at....does anyone else remember such rumors?
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:31 PM   #2668
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I think a camshaft position sensor would be a first on a bike, A Japanese bike anyway...
Putting a cam sensor on a single cylinder 4 stroke is unnecessary. It's extremely common to have a spark on BOTH upstrokes of the piston...one lights the mixture on the compression stroke, and the other just sparks on the exhaust stroke....the common description for this is "throw-away-spark".....so don't bother to look for a CMP on this engine

One thing I WOULD like to understand is how the second exhaust gas oxygen sensor is used on this engine....RamZ describes it in Honda literature....but I still don't understand the "whys".....and it better be a good explanation...oxygen sensors are not inexpensive....their value is in $$ not cents.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:36 PM   #2669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post


BMAP = Barometric/Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor or a sensor for each.
TPS = throttle position sensor
CTS = Coolant Temperature Sensor
[SIZE=2]OS or O2S = Oxygen Sensor
[SIZE=2]IAC = Idle Air Control valve/stepper motor
[SIZE=2]CKP = Crankshaft Position Sensor
CMP = Camshaft Position Sensor
Using the abbreviations shown in the service manual:

MAP Sensor
TP Sensor
ECT Sensor
O2 Sensor
IACV
CKP Sensor

No Camshaft Sensor
Also has an IAT Sensor
Don't see a Barometric sensor
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:38 PM   #2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
SPUD: You bring up another issue pointing out that the engine computer is only $73. I seem to recall reading a rumor that there were "race" versions of the computer that could be used on the CBR250R "street bike" that made much more than the 25 horse the CBR was rated at....does anyone else remember such rumors?
A quick google search yielded the following information, Ed.

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-p...table-ecu.html

http://www.jetsetracing.com/ecu%20cd...-250r-ecu.html



Apparently the race ECU is very expensive.

Spud
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