CRF based Rally Bike Help - Page 2

chavo_dakar_bolivia · 01-27-2013, 06:18 PM

Hello advriders!
Thanks for your comments and insight.
I want to share with all of you what has been done and used in this Dakar.

In Sardegna rally, I dnfed on the last stage, and was using a stock stator with Super B Battery and STOCK headlights.
First i had thought it were the LED lights that were causing the problem, so this theory got discarded.
The second theory of the problems were oil coolers and/or heat. This also got discarded because in Sardegna I had no oil cooler and the stator failed 100m from the start. (cold engine still).
Third theory was the Super B battery. I was using a stock battery in Dakar, and still the stator failed. So this theory is also discarded.

In Dakar, I was using a Trailtech stator with a stock battery.....and it also failed.

So I have in mind experimenting with bolting on rally accesories (tanks,navigation tower, etc etc) on a 2008 CRF450R.
Some say the gearing is too close, but I believe only 1,2,3 gear are closer. 4th and specially 5th, are better on the R model.
The weakness of the X gearing is its 5th gear...it is too tall and the engine doesnt quite pull it.

So with these clarifications, what do you think?

Thanks for the advice.

Luke · 01-27-2013, 07:11 PM

So when the stator fails, what happens? Does the bike completely stop running? Do the lights or instruments stop working immediately? Does the battery stop charging?

chavo_dakar_bolivia · 01-27-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

So when the stator fails, what happens? Does the bike completely stop running? Do the lights or instruments stop working immediately? Does the battery stop charging?

It is the exact same thing as if it were running out of fuel......
I was going full on and suddenly it stalls and feels like it ran out of fuel......

Mudguts · 01-27-2013, 07:30 PM

Do you know how many watts your stator produces ?
Do you know how many watts you are using ?
Is you reg/rec working , properly no spikes etc etc

Have you checked for bad / loose ground contact points ,broken wires , this can produce a feed back signal and fry stators
Same with positive bad contact will cause things to over heat .

With two different stator frayed , I,d be looking at reg/rec , and ground contacts

Luke · 01-27-2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavo_dakar_bolivia

It is the exact same thing as if it were running out of fuel......
I was going full on and suddenly it stalls and feels like it ran out of fuel......

Ok, so that should have nothing to do with the charging system or battery. The ignition wiring is independent of these.

It could be either the high voltage coil on the stator which powers the ignition, or it could be the timing pickup which tells the ignition when to fire. The timing pickup is usually replaced with the stator so it could be either.

In this picture the pickup is the plastic bit on the lower right with the blue and green wires going to it.

A resistance test should tell you which one is bad. I don't have a manual so can't tell you what the exact values should be. Sometimes when either part fails it will start failing when hot and work again when it cools off, then fail more often until it never works.

Mudguts · 01-27-2013, 08:43 PM

Could even be the spark plug cap if its a resistor type , but it's breaking down under load , so work from the spark plug back ,

Replace plug , plug cap , there cheap and if there ok you'll have spares
Check resistance of hi-tension lead check for damage ( rub marks etc etc)
Check resistance of coil

All the data you need should be easily Googled

Mudguts · 01-27-2013, 08:50 PM

Test data for crf 450 2005

Tested Plug on other motor which is oke.

-----------------------------
Tested: peak voltage on the ignition coil should be 100 volts minimum.
My measerement after kick starting = 0 Volts.

Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 0,1 - 0,3 Ohm

-----------------------------

Tested: exiter coil peak voltage should be 50 volts minimum (blue terminal + white

Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 9 - 25 Ohm

-----------------------------

Tested: peak voltage on the ignition pulse generator should be 0,7 volts minimum.

Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 180 - 280 Ohm

-----------------------------

Tested: coil resistance with cap removed should be 4 - 8 K Ohm at 20c
Regards,

rmhrc628 · 01-27-2013, 09:35 PM

Need to also know did you change the flywheel weight to a trail tech ?

If you have swap back to oem. TT are the first to admit that occasionally their fww really fark up.

Mike The Swede · 01-27-2013, 10:29 PM

Trailtech Stator fails.

I have been there, done that. Talked to Glen Hoffman at GHR Australia, they had the same experience. They recommended to modified the original stator. I had the same recommendation from my local stator guru, chuck the Trailtech in the bin and modify the original.

I have had 450R for MX and 450X for rally, both -08, at the same time. My mods was the usual, open air box, R-exhaust (fits with minor mods), Stage 2 hotcam, Vortex CDI. Never used the R-head but was temped, R has larger valves on intake. Clocks 158 kmph

doyle · 01-27-2013, 10:45 PM

http://crfsonly.com/howto/gearing/mo...calculator.php

Blur · 01-28-2013, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doyle

http://crfsonly.com/howto/gearing/mo...calculator.php

Nice!

wrk2surf · 01-28-2013, 03:05 PM

Chavo what gearing are you running now?

also here is a link to their wide ratio gears for the 450R

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/adva...s=transmission

chavo_dakar_bolivia · 01-28-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrk2surf

Chavo what gearing are you running now?

also here is a link to their wide ratio gears for the 450R

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/adva...s=transmission

I ran 15/50 for most of the race, and 15/49 for the faster stages.......

chavo_dakar_bolivia · 01-28-2013, 04:16 PM

Tomorrow I will have a 2008 CRF450R in my hands , and see if the rally accesories fit....

- In case the rear tank assembly (replaces the subframe) fits, what would be the next step to have all the electrical installations in a R model?
- I will also order the wide ratio gears from CRFs only...
-

And hopefully, VOILA! a 55 HP Rally bike!

rmhrc628 · 01-28-2013, 07:48 PM

The rear subframe is swappable between x and r for 07-08 years

You might want to check thumper talk for the info on the wr gears. If they are the ones that bd made and marketed I'm not sure they'll stand up to Dakar abuse...

You might want to custom make a legs case cover so you can install a bigger stator. Lack of space is issue.

01-27-2013, 06:18 PM	#16
chavo_dakar_bolivia Adventurer Joined: Dec 2011 Location: Bolivia Oddometer: 46	Dakar issues and findings Hello advriders! Thanks for your comments and insight. I want to share with all of you what has been done and used in this Dakar. In Sardegna rally, I dnfed on the last stage, and was using a stock stator with Super B Battery and STOCK headlights. First i had thought it were the LED lights that were causing the problem, so this theory got discarded. The second theory of the problems were oil coolers and/or heat. This also got discarded because in Sardegna I had no oil cooler and the stator failed 100m from the start. (cold engine still). Third theory was the Super B battery. I was using a stock battery in Dakar, and still the stator failed. So this theory is also discarded. In Dakar, I was using a Trailtech stator with a stock battery.....and it also failed. So I have in mind experimenting with bolting on rally accesories (tanks,navigation tower, etc etc) on a 2008 CRF450R. Some say the gearing is too close, but I believe only 1,2,3 gear are closer. 4th and specially 5th, are better on the R model. The weakness of the X gearing is its 5th gear...it is too tall and the engine doesnt quite pull it. So with these clarifications, what do you think? Thanks for the advice. __________________ DAKAR 2014# 50 Team Bolivia

01-27-2013, 10:45 PM	#25
doyle ^OP RallyRaidReview-ing Joined: Jan 2004 Location: Off Piste Oddometer: 21,518	http://crfsonly.com/howto/gearing/mo...calculator.php __________________ *Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.* RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview

01-28-2013, 03:05 PM	#27
wrk2surf BITD/Rallye Joined: Dec 2007 Location: THE exact center of California/Bass lake/Yosemite Oddometer: 5,305	Chavo what gearing are you running now? also here is a link to their wide ratio gears for the 450R http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/adva...s=transmission __________________ Thanks for the 2013 support: DUNLOP, BELL HELMETS, Kriega USA, Carbon-pro.com, Ride 100% Goggles, Renazco Racing, Sidi/Motonation, Acerbis USA,KLeN, FMF, Mx1west,,Masters paint and body, Magura , motolab ,and Freedom Cycle

01-28-2013, 04:16 PM	#29
chavo_dakar_bolivia Adventurer Joined: Dec 2011 Location: Bolivia Oddometer: 46	2008 crf450r Tomorrow I will have a 2008 CRF450R in my hands , and see if the rally accesories fit.... - In case the rear tank assembly (replaces the subframe) fits, what would be the next step to have all the electrical installations in a R model? - I will also order the wide ratio gears from CRFs only... - And hopefully, VOILA! a 55 HP Rally bike! __________________ DAKAR 2014# 50 Team Bolivia

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: .
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-27-2013, 07:11 PM	#17
Luke GPoET&P Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Idiotville, OR Oddometer: 3,748	So when the stator fails, what happens? Does the bike completely stop running? Do the lights or instruments stop working immediately? Does the battery stop charging?

01-27-2013, 07:30 PM	#19
Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Some were in , lostralia Oddometer: 1,658	Do you know how many watts your stator produces ? Do you know how many watts you are using ? Is you reg/rec working , properly no spikes etc etc Have you checked for bad / loose ground contact points ,broken wires , this can produce a feed back signal and fry stators Same with positive bad contact will cause things to over heat . With two different stator frayed , I,d be looking at reg/rec , and ground contacts

01-27-2013, 08:43 PM	#21
Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Some were in , lostralia Oddometer: 1,658	Could even be the spark plug cap if its a resistor type , but it's breaking down under load , so work from the spark plug back , Replace plug , plug cap , there cheap and if there ok you'll have spares Check resistance of hi-tension lead check for damage ( rub marks etc etc) Check resistance of coil All the data you need should be easily Googled

01-27-2013, 08:50 PM	#22
Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Some were in , lostralia Oddometer: 1,658	Test data for crf 450 2005 Tested Plug on other motor which is oke. ----------------------------- Tested: peak voltage on the ignition coil should be 100 volts minimum. My measerement after kick starting = 0 Volts. Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 0,1 - 0,3 Ohm ----------------------------- Tested: exiter coil peak voltage should be 50 volts minimum (blue terminal + white Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 9 - 25 Ohm ----------------------------- Tested: peak voltage on the ignition pulse generator should be 0,7 volts minimum. Resistance measurement Ohm at 20 degrees celsius should be 180 - 280 Ohm ----------------------------- Tested: coil resistance with cap removed should be 4 - 8 K Ohm at 20c Regards,

01-27-2013, 09:35 PM	#23
rmhrc628 Beastly Adventurer Joined: Feb 2006 Location: The high country VIC Oddometer: 1,567	Need to also know did you change the flywheel weight to a trail tech ? If you have swap back to oem. TT are the first to admit that occasionally their fww really fark up.

01-27-2013, 10:29 PM	#24
Mike The Swede Mike, The Swede Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Nora, Sweden Oddometer: 27	Trailtech Stator fails. I have been there, done that. Talked to Glen Hoffman at GHR Australia, they had the same experience. They recommended to modified the original stator. I had the same recommendation from my local stator guru, chuck the Trailtech in the bin and modify the original. I have had 450R for MX and 450X for rally, both -08, at the same time. My mods was the usual, open air box, R-exhaust (fits with minor mods), Stage 2 hotcam, Vortex CDI. Never used the R-head but was temped, R has larger valves on intake. Clocks 158 kmph

01-28-2013, 07:48 PM	#30
rmhrc628 Beastly Adventurer Joined: Feb 2006 Location: The high country VIC Oddometer: 1,567	The rear subframe is swappable between x and r for 07-08 years You might want to check thumper talk for the info on the wr gears. If they are the ones that bd made and marketed I'm not sure they'll stand up to Dakar abuse... You might want to custom make a legs case cover so you can install a bigger stator. Lack of space is issue.