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Old 01-27-2013, 07:44 PM   #2671
'Flagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post

One thing I WOULD like to understand is how the second exhaust gas oxygen sensor is used on this engine....RamZ describes it in Honda literature....but I still don't understand the "whys".....and it better be a good explanation...oxygen sensors are not inexpensive....their value is in $$ not cents.
Service manual shows only a single O2 sensor, up near the exhaust outlet from the head.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #2672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
...One thing I WOULD like to understand is how the second exhaust gas oxygen sensor is used on this engine....RamZ describes it in Honda literature....but I still don't understand the "whys".....and it better be a good explanation...oxygen sensors are not inexpensive....their value is in $$ not cents.
Part #11 in the following diagram is an oxygen sensor; it costs $55. Is there another oxygen sensor on the bike, Ed?



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Old 01-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #2673
'Flagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
Part #11 in the following diagram is an oxygen sensor; it costs $55. Is there another oxygen sensor on the bike, Ed?


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See my previous post.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:58 PM   #2674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Flagger View Post
See my previous post.
You beat me by 5 minutes, 'Flagger! I was composing my post while you were placing yours.

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Old 01-27-2013, 08:03 PM   #2675
'Flagger
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Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
You beat me by 5 minutes, 'Flagger! I was composing my post while you were placing yours.

Spud
No worries ... I was searching for this mystery race ECU at the same time as you ... found the same CBR25R.net article as you did ... even went to HRC's site to find some more info and didn't get very far.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:57 PM   #2676
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
I wouldn't say car drivers are so good here, but most are quite cooperative with motorbikes.

If i should complain, scooters are my target ... no traffic rules and so many and more and more powerful
... I fear mostly them

L
if I was on anything smaller than a big scooter over here I'd be more than nervous. Luckily where I live its way out in the country. To many people on phones, texting or whatever they do. My mom just called me this morning and told me that she had been hit by a jeep. Guess what the lady in the jeep was doing?????? Stupid, stupid people. Then she tells my mom that this is the 4th time this has happened to her, like it was my moms fault. I'm telling ya its like every 50th person had a lobotomy over here. I'm sure its everywhere though. It seems like its mostly kids to me age 16 to 25 ish. Keep your eyes open for the meandering wasps over there.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #2677
Krono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post

...
I think I want to start a new post like "CRF250L engine control details and tech"

If that sounds good to the CRF250L owner and followers out there let me know???

If you could PM me pictures, info or questions feel free. This way it won't clog up this thread and be great source of info that can be located easy.

Over and out...




This sounds a good idea to me, since this one is mostly about racks and bars.
It could be a "tech-tread" about engine, from intake to exhaust, electrical, and so on ..

L
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:02 AM   #2678
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New Generation Honda

I can't remember if it was on this thread or I read it someplace else. Might have been Bake posting about Bill Blue's CRFL strip, and punching out to 280? This is a ground up new engine, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that all these sensors are interchangeable within the Honda family, maybe even to the cars. Usually, when this happens, they have looked at the future emissions, and are already there now. All that "stuff" on our CRF is to make it compliant, probably not only here, but for worst case scenario, world wide. One exception was the Thailand guy saying that his muffler didn't come apart like ours, to get to the spark arrest screen, but for the most part, this is the same bike everywhere. Looked for the Ramz post about how this bike can "talk" to a computer, but couldn't find it. He did reference how the DLC plugs into the UDS pocket tester, back on page 19, post #266. Unfortunately, a UDS is not in my tool kit. Anybody got a WCD (Weather Changer Device)?
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SAPB screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 05:15 AM
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:11 AM   #2679
mtntrails
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Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
Anybody got a WCD (Weather Changer Device)?
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:12 AM   #2680
SAPB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramz View Post
That's the DLC. You can connect the HDS pocket tester to the port and read out diagnostic codes. Chapter 4 in the Service Manual describes the procedure (37 pages).

The DLC port is shown at the bottom of the wiring diagram.
Oops, page 18, HDS. Looks like you can get one from Helm, $2704, in stock!
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SAPB screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 05:29 AM
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:37 AM   #2681
NJ-Brett
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The MAP Manafold Absolute Pressure would be the same as a barometric sensor, no?
And I think all FI bikes have an intake air temp sensor.

As far as two oxy sensors go, cars use the 2nd one (post cat) to measure that the cat is working, a requirement on cars....

Is Honda getting the systems like cars?
In some ways it would be great, as those are wide band systems, from idle to full throttle, unlike the 'just where the EPA measures' systems on most bikes.,
My TU only looks at the oxy sensor under mid throttle and mid rpm's, it does not look at it at idle, at full throttle, , or low or high rpm's, and my bike does not spend a lot of time in the oxy sensor zone!

A wideband system would allow changes without needing to program anything, like cars, the system would just adjust for any changes, but with a 2nd oxy sensor, you could not remove the cat or change the exhaust without setting a code.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Flagger View Post
Using the abbreviations shown in the service manual:

MAP Sensor
TP Sensor
ECT Sensor
O2 Sensor
IACV
CKP Sensor

No Camshaft Sensor
Also has an IAT Sensor
Don't see a Barometric sensor
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 AM   #2682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Flagger View Post
Using the abbreviations shown in the service manual:

MAP Sensor
TP Sensor
ECT Sensor
O2 Sensor
IACV
CKP Sensor

No Camshaft Sensor
Also has an IAT Sensor
Don't see a Barometric sensor
Thanks

I'm used to using the standardized automotive abbreviations. So keep that in mind.

They must be using the MAP sensor to read Barometric pressure at key on then. This would be how the PCM checks altitude.

I figured it would have the IAT sensor = Intake Air Temperature sensor. Thanks.

I have a link to the Honda parts catalog which is one of the things I needed.

What I would really like to see is the wiring diagram. Pictures are always nice too, I have a few collected.

The lack of the cam sensor and 1 wire narrow band O2 sensor shows me it is a early basically an early type automotive system. That means the PCM is most likly a PROM type instead of a EEPROM type.

This type of system doesn't do to much OBD so it is easier to trick it as needed. This also makes diagnoising and testing easier for the average backyard tech.

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Old 01-28-2013, 06:37 AM   #2683
MentalGuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
Anybody got a WCD (Weather Changer Device)?

You should... It's your motorcycle, just ride it to where the weather is nice.


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Old 01-28-2013, 06:40 AM   #2684
NJ-Brett
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Works better with new bikes, get one and it snows...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post
You should... It's your motorcycle, just ride it to where the weather is nice.


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Old 01-28-2013, 06:53 AM   #2685
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud Rider View Post
That's great, Guru! Please do start a new thread, either here, or at Thumpertalk!

This unit only costs $73. Would it help your diagnosis if we chipped in and bought you an ECU?

Spud
I plan on posting on both sites. I pretty sure you know my user name there...

How about you starting a tread about the available mods of the bike???

It's the programing and live data feed I would like to see, but that's not really needed.

A wiring diagram and a fellow inmate to test a few things will help out the most.

I'm well versed with the princples of operation this early speed density closed loop system works under. I have diagnoised, repaired and tricked many variations of the type of system for years.


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